Speaker 1 (00:00): Coming Speaker 2 (00:01): Up on Art Palace, Speaker 3 (00:03): We have art in this unexpected place, so in the bathroom stalls and on the mirror, and then we did a whole merchandise line where there was screen printed, beautiful toilet paper, and I think air fresheners and that's Speaker 1 (00:17): Great. Speaker 3 (00:17): All of that was sold in the gift shops. Speaker 1 (00:32): Welcome Speaker 2 (00:32): To Art Palace, produced by Cincinnati Speaker 1 (00:34): Art Museum. This is your Speaker 2 (00:36): Host, Russell iig. Speaker 1 (00:37): Here at Speaker 2 (00:37): The Art Palace, we meet cool people and then talk to them Speaker 1 (00:40): About art. Today's Speaker 2 (00:42): Cool person is Colleen Howton from Artworks. Speaker 1 (00:53): So I'm here with Colleen Howton. I learned not to say Houston. Speaker 3 (01:00): Awesome. Speaker 1 (01:00): It's like the street in New York. It's Houston. Speaker 3 (01:02): Totally. Speaker 1 (01:03): Because if you go into New York and call that Houston Street, everyone's going to throw major shade at you, Speaker 3 (01:09): And that's what I would do. If you call me and calling Houston, Speaker 1 (01:12): You would just give me Speaker 3 (01:14): Real Speaker 1 (01:14): Side eye from artworks. I don't know. I feel like every episode I say something to this effect where I'm like, what's your actual title? I don't know anyone's real titles. I never bother to do my homework. Speaker 3 (01:30): So yeah. Speaker 1 (01:31): What do they call you over Speaker 3 (01:33): There these days? Speaker 1 (01:34): Yeah. Oh, I'm sure it's Speaker 3 (01:36): Changed. Yeah. No, I'm the vice president of programming and operations, and I've been with Art Artworks for a long time. But yeah, I've always been involved in the programming. Speaker 1 (01:46): Okay, so you're not going to share how long you've been there? Speaker 3 (01:50): I'm happy to, no. So we actually just celebrated our 21st anniversary, and I go back 20 years. You go back to when I was an apprentice. When I was 18, I worked under a tent in the old S E P A soccer field, and that was before, I don't know if you remember, but the tents moved up to Eden Park. Speaker 1 (02:14): I do Speaker 3 (02:15): Actually stone's throwaway from Speaker 1 (02:16): The museum. I actually do remember seeing 'em all set up down there. Speaker 3 (02:19): So I've been involved seasonally for 20 years, and then I've been involved about to celebrate my 14th anniversary working full-time in the office. Speaker 1 (02:31): Before you go too far, I kind of feel like we should give the basic rundown of what is artworks. I feel like most people probably listening know that, but just in case the big picture. Speaker 3 (02:45): Absolutely. So artworks, our mission is to transform individuals and places through investments in creativity. We do that in lots of ways, but at our core since the beginning, we have been doing workforce development, employment in the arts for youth, and so youth are hired to work as apprentices with professional artists, art educators, and work on projects that are really transformative and we've evolved and grown over the years, so we do a lot more than that. We do that to this day, but the scale of the projects have grown, so a lot of people now know us for murals Speaker 3 (03:30): Because they're so visible and impactful, and what maybe a lot of people don't know is that Youth Apprentices help paint every single one of the murals in our city, in our community. So we have over 200 murals, if you count interior and exterior murals and many other public art installations as well. We also support creative entrepreneurs who are starting or growing a business, and we've been doing that in earnest for the last five years. But it's funny, I mean, since the very beginning of time at Artworks, artists were making works for sale and really learning about retail and making a living with their work, and so that's really been the trajectory. Speaker 1 (04:19): Yeah, I mean, immediately when you say artworks, I think most people jump to murals, but when artwork started 20 years ago, what were the first projects that they were doing? Speaker 3 (04:30): It's a great question. In the early days, it was a lot of actually partnerships with the Cincinnati Art Museum or the TAF Museum of Art, or the C A C really helped to inform what the early projects were. So there may have been a book binding project, and then all of the books were sold in the retail tent. The first project I worked on was a furniture painting project, and all the furniture was sold in the retail tent. Speaker 1 (05:02): We Speaker 3 (05:02): Did have some early public art installations in commissions, so I worked on a mural on the West End Spray ground, and that was in 97. Of course, mural Lake was one of the largest public art installations Speaker 1 (05:19): In Speaker 3 (05:19): Partnership with the Waterworks department. Speaker 1 (05:23): Yeah, I was just trying to remember if in my mind, it's always been murals. It's always been murals, but I couldn't remember if there was a time before murals. Oh, Speaker 3 (05:32): Yeah, there's a great installation right here that was a partnership with the Cincinnati Art Museum At your bus shelter? Speaker 1 (05:37): Yeah, I was just about to say the Speaker 3 (05:38): Bus shelter. And so that was a two year project. One year was the Mosaic, which is the floor of the bus shelter, and then the second year were really the bench seating and the structural supports for the shelter. So it's the most artistic bus shelter in the city of Cincinnati. Speaker 1 (05:55): Yeah, so what are some of your favorite, I was going to say from this past year, but I don't know, we can just open it up if you want to say from the new Crop of projects or I don't know. If you want to go back further, that's fine. Speaker 3 (06:09): Yeah, it's always fun to go down History Lane. I mean, I think I was thinking about partnerships with Art Museum just walking in here today. So I really love a partnership that we did, and it was when the, sorry, the Cincinnati Wing first Speaker 1 (06:26): Opened Speaker 3 (06:27): In the Cincinnati Art Museum, and we did a project called Freedom Works. Everything we named for a while was like, Speaker 1 (06:36): Blank Speaker 3 (06:36): Works. Yes, voice Works. You did it if it was a performance project. But no, it was a really amazing project, really celebrating the grand opening of the Freedom Center and doing a project around freedom with youth. We worked with local artist Tom Shaw, Speaker 1 (06:55): And Speaker 3 (06:56): Then we invited in Tim Rollins, who's very well known for his work with Kids of Survival Speaker 1 (07:01): Out Speaker 3 (07:02): Of New York and youth worked on woodblock prints and large mixed media works, and they filled the whole Sarah Vance, Michelle Waddell Gallery with their work. It was an absolutely gorgeous exhibit. The work was acquired and part of the permanent collection of the Cincinnati Art Museum. There was an amazing opening where the Southern Baptist Choir was singing in the Great Hall. I mean, I think for everyone who participated, it was just one of those incredible moments of a career at such a young age. I mean, to already have an exhibit in the Cincinnati Art Museum. It was a huge honor, so I love that project. We did another, okay, I'll just talk about another fun project, which was in the bathrooms of the Cincinnati Art Museum. Oh, Speaker 1 (07:59): I totally remember this called Speaker 3 (08:00): Nature Calls. Yeah, Speaker 1 (08:02): Because one of my friends, Nathan Ste, I think was working on this project, so Speaker 3 (08:07): I remember, yes, he was the lead artist. I think it was his brilliant idea to transform the two bathrooms right off the main hall and have art in this unexpected place. So in the bathroom stalls and on the mirror, and then we did a whole merchandise line where there was screen printed, beautiful toilet paper, and I think air fresheners. Speaker 1 (08:32): Oh, that's great. Speaker 3 (08:32): All of that was sold in the gift shop, so that was a super fun project. Yeah, Speaker 1 (08:36): That was great. I had forgotten about this. I love that you're basically telling me all about stuff that's happen here. Speaker 3 (08:43): I'm like, oh, yeah, I don't remember. Speaker 1 (08:46): I remember the bathroom one, but I wasn't here for the other one at the time, Speaker 3 (08:50): And our most recent partnership with Tony Lman is still here. So a really wonderful installation, the Neon Campground piece that greets you as you drive in. I mean, best appreciated at Speaker 1 (09:03): Night. Speaker 3 (09:03): At night, and Speaker 1 (09:04): Luckily, we actually have evening hours now, and you can come look at it Speaker 3 (09:07): Because Speaker 1 (09:08): For a while, right when it opened, we really didn't, other than art after dark, there were few times when it was dark enough to actually see it fully lit, Speaker 3 (09:18): But this is a great time of year to also view it from a distance Speaker 1 (09:21): Because the trees are leafless leafless. Yeah, Speaker 3 (09:24): You Speaker 1 (09:24): Can see it pretty well, especially from even from 70, 71. I can't keep my interstate straight, but even when you're driving on the highway or on Gilbert, you can look up and see it pretty clearly now. It's pretty interesting. I mean, I remember that piece. We didn't want to actually call it a mural, or Tony didn't want to call it a mural. So I guess that's another one that would fall into that just general public art kind of piece. But I mean, is that something, when an artist is excited to do something with a really unconventional material, do you kind of like, oh, or are you excited for something different or, Speaker 3 (10:01): Oh, I think we're thrilled. Yeah. I mean, just to break the boundaries of what, whether it's a mural, if it's a wall-mounted work or if it's just a chance to do something new and unexpected. We talk about all the time, our city is a gallery, so really interested and open to embracing new styles. And actually, so just in terms of what's coming up next, artworks is going to be a partner on a really exciting art light-based festival called Blink, which will be happening in the fall 2017. And so I think we're just so thrilled that there's an opportunity for artists to work in a new media and to explore light-based sculptures or more performance or projection, more neon installations in tandem with painted traditional murals. And really, Speaker 1 (11:03): Yeah, there are some of the things in Blink going to work projected on top of other murals. Speaker 3 (11:09): Yes, that is definitely one of the components of the festival. I think Speaker 1 (11:13): I saw some images of testing out some stuff Speaker 3 (11:16): Online, Speaker 1 (11:17): So that's why I was thinking, I remember seeing stuff with on top of the Kim Krause mural Speaker 3 (11:23): Downtown, I mean Brave Berlin, who was really kind of the creative genius behind Luminosity and animated music hall. I think that's a real passion place to animate something and bring it to life, whether it's the architecture or the existing work of art. Speaker 1 (11:42): Well, it's such a cool idea too, because it seemed like Luminosity was so popular, but it was getting too big for its britches, so to speak. It seemed like there was no way to kind of contain this crowd for it, and they just kept figuring out ways. But it was an impossible situation where nothing made anyone happy in a way, okay, well, we'll make ticketed, no, but it's free. And then the people started paying for the tickets, and so it's an interesting way to break it up all around the city to Speaker 3 (12:17): Make it more accessible for a larger audience and hopefully attract visitors to our city as well. Speaker 1 (12:23): Yeah. Well, and I think it's also cool because it gets people walking around the city too, and that's a great thing, instead of just kind of coming downtown, going to one event in that one particular place where that's kind of maybe within their comfort zone and then getting in their car and driving back home, they're kind of having to explore downtown or I think that's really cool to get people moving around that way. Is there anything else you wanted to let me know about artworks or any exciting news for, I know, 21 years? Speaker 3 (12:59): Yeah, it's amazing. Yeah, so I think artworks has been really committed to transforming our community through workforce development and economic impact, and really helping to build civic pride. And we continue to think about ways that we can amplify our impact in the coming years, and we will be looking at more strategic investments in neighborhoods in places year over year, as well as investing in longer term employment, potentially more than just a summer or a season. So we're really excited about all of that, and additionally, we're thinking around our expertise to raise awareness around issues. So just for example, this past year, we were approached by a partner organization, Christchurch Cathedral, to do a project to raise awareness around gun violence in our community, and it was really powerful. We were able to engage New York based artists, IC and sa, they're actually originally from Iran, I believe, and they had a really powerful voice and something to say around this issue, and there was a whole campaign with yard signs that went around it in a press conference mean. So we were just one partner among many that contributed to this project, but I think that art has a real powerful ability to potentially bring around social change, at least dialogue, to help evoke empathy, and it's something that artworks will continue to work with partners. So just for example, in 2017, we have partners and we will be doing projects around homelessness in Cincinnati and also a social intervention for teens around mental health and stigma around mental health. Speaker 1 (15:19): Wow, that's great. When you said something about just the idea of civic pride, and it just made me think of the way that a lot of the murals have just affected the way I talk about the city in just really practical terms, and I think that's an interesting thing to think about how even I feel like directions are linked to artworks, murals in some ways in my mind that I'll be like, oh, do you know where the big Jim Tarbell is? Okay, you're going to go by that. You're going to go by, do you know where all the fruits and vegetables are? Okay. It's kind of interesting to think about how those things become sort of landmarks in the city and a way of identifying neighborhoods as well. Sometimes you don't. I mean, if you're not familiar with every little neighborhood and then somebody goes, oh, it's the one that has this, and you go, oh, Speaker 3 (16:04): Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Speaker 1 (16:06): It's really interesting the way that those do lock into a city's identity, and even the way those murals that are older in the city, you guys did the, just Speaker 3 (16:18): The Richard Haass mural that we restored. Speaker 1 (16:20): Restored, yes. That is just from such a young age. I connected that with going to Cincinnati and going downtown and going to, because usually we would drive past it on our way to music hall for field trips and stuff. So just seeing murals, it just, they really do impact the way you feel about the city. And in that one, it was always such a magical thing just because it's this Trump loy trick of, there's this opulent palace basically in front of me. Speaker 3 (16:55): It was amazing to work with Richard Haas. I mean, that was, honestly, that mural really started our whole mural program, really, if I'm being honest, the Mayor Mallory at the time referred to that because that was one of Cincinnati's sole murals in 2006 and said, we need more of these around our city in every neighborhood. And he had been to Philadelphia and saw Speaker 1 (17:22): The Speaker 3 (17:22): 3000 murals Speaker 1 (17:23): Plus. Yes, they have so many, Speaker 3 (17:25): And they do an incredible job of connecting to their department of tourism and really helping to tell the story of the city through mural tours and books and merchandise, but we owe a lot to really the Kroger company who commissioned Richard Haass 30 years ago, 31 years ago, and that mural, and that it was such an honor to be able to help restore it and to meet Richard, and he was great to work with the youth. I remember him saying, cities need monuments, Speaker 1 (17:58): And Speaker 3 (17:59): He thought about his work as a monument working within the architecture and building this, you're right, this Trump loy faux sculpture of Cincinnati. Speaker 1 (18:07): It doesn't matter that it's not actually real. It's Speaker 3 (18:10): Not a real sculpture, Speaker 1 (18:10): Right? Yeah. It functions in the same way. It has the same feelings of, and yeah, it totally works that way. So some of the murals are very obvious. Are there any that people kind of miss or don't even realize are an artworks project or things that I guess you probably don't know if you No, Speaker 3 (18:34): Probably. Okay, so one of my favorite murals is in Covington, Kentucky on the side of the John R. Green building, which is for anybody who's an art teacher out there knows. Speaker 1 (18:46): This is one of my favorites too. I'm so excited you said this because I was like, and I love Christian. Speaker 3 (18:50): Yes. Yeah, so it's in Maina and it's on John R. Green is a school supply entity Speaker 1 (18:59): Teacher, teacher supply. I mean, they have everything company. Yeah. Speaker 3 (19:04): My Speaker 1 (19:04): Mom was a teacher, so I went there all the time as a kid. So it has many layers for me of just loving that place. Speaker 3 (19:13): So this was the first mural we ever did in northern Kentucky, and it was really important to us to work with a Covington artist. Speaker 1 (19:23): And Speaker 3 (19:24): So we were thrilled when Christian Schmidt accepted the opportunity and it was his first mural, so it was a really ambitious piece. If you're familiar with his work, it's Speaker 1 (19:35): Super Speaker 3 (19:36): Labor intensive. I mean, he paints and cuts out of paper, and now he makes the most amazing intricate paper sculptures you've ever seen. But at the time, I think he constructed the whole mural out of this paper maquette. He constructed it. And also, I'm a mother, but even more than that, I mean, I think I love anything that remotely evokes story and it's pages of a book and as you follow the panel, you read it from left to, and the story changes and new characters enter. It's so smart. There's a new color that's added for each panel. It's very subtle, Speaker 1 (20:18): And Speaker 3 (20:18): So when you ask about a mural that would be easy to potentially miss, it's all SepOne with the exception of one new color is introduced for each panel, and it is something special. If you haven't seen it, I would recommend seeing it in detail, spending some time with Speaker 1 (20:37): It, Speaker 3 (20:37): Read it from left to right. Speaker 1 (20:39): Well, when I first saw it, I was so excited because, because you were talking about that muted palette was so unexpected, but I love it because it does just kind of blend into the building in a way. It is not demanding attention, but then it rewards close looking and it sort of plays with your expectations of a mural because instead of making everything super giant and easy to see from a distance, everything's actually very small and it kind of invites you to get up close in that kind of storybook way that you sort of sit down and read it in that way. So it's not like it has less of a billboard idea and it just really is great. And because it is low to the ground by the sidewalk, I mean it works for that setting too. I feel like that street is, in my memory at least, has a lot of trees and things too. So really, it actually functions better by being something that is viewed from that close distance, and it's kind of looked at in that way. Speaker 4 (21:45): Absolutely. Speaker 1 (21:46): Yeah, I really love that piece, and that was one of my favorites too, so I'm so happy you said that. I was like, I love that one. Yay. Yeah. Well, I thought we would go look at some artwork now. I can't wait, so let's go. Speaker 4 (22:00): Okay, Speaker 1 (22:09): So we are here in front of the Terrace Cafe looking at a mural, which I picked intentionally because that's your trade. I Speaker 4 (22:23): Love this piece. Speaker 1 (22:25): So I don't know, maybe since this is an audio medium, maybe we could describe it for people in case they haven't seen it. So how would you describe this piece to somebody who couldn't see it? Speaker 4 (22:41): And so we should mention the artist, right? Speaker 1 (22:43): If you want to. I was going to get to that, but that's okay. Sorry, did I spoil it? Yeah, the big surprise, gasp. It's Monroe. Yeah. Yes, you're correct. It is. The artist is Juan Murro. Speaker 4 (22:56): It's a beautiful rectangular mural installed here on the wall opposite the cafe, and it has really vibrant color, lots of yellow, red, blue, green, orange and white and black, and it's all on a really beautiful blue background that has a lot of wash, I would say a lot of nuance. And Speaker 1 (23:25): When you say rectangular, I feel like maybe if you haven't seen this piece, you might imagine a sheet of paper size kind of rectangle, but it is so long. It's Speaker 4 (23:40): Probably 25 feet long or something. Speaker 1 (23:43): Yeah, probably. That's a good question. Speaker 5 (23:45): I actually don't think I have a, don't, am I Speaker 4 (23:47): Maybe six feet tall? That would be my guess. Speaker 5 (23:49): Yeah, it looks like right about six feet imagining if I stood in there, which you cannot do, but if I did, if I was to climb up there minutes before security pulled me down and stood up there, I feel like it would definitely be taller than me by a little bit, which was a clue to how tall I am. Not six feet tall. So yeah, it's super wide Speaker 4 (24:19): And there is also a mobile hanging in front of it, which just reinforces the artists. I imagine this is inspired by, Speaker 5 (24:29): Well, so these two pieces actually since you brought it up. So the mobile is by Alexander Calder, and they used to both be at the same place. So they were both from the Terrace Plaza Hotel. That's why they're here together now is because they were, I don't know, the mural was definitely commissioned for the hotel. I don't know if the mobile was commissioned for the piece or for the hotel relationship. I could probably go look that up very fast. There's a relationship. Yeah, relationship Speaker 4 (25:04): Works. Speaker 5 (25:05): They obviously worked together, and if you know anything about the hotel, which is closed now, it was this super modernist building and for the time there really wasn't anything like it in the city and probably still isn't a lot of things like it, and it's kind of a shame that we can't go in it anymore, but every aspect of the design was very modern, and so they wanted to make sure all of the drapes and the bedding and stuff, everything had this aesthetic, which is really cool. So these works fit into the goals of the hotel at the time, which was to show people what was the newest of the new at the time in the forties. Speaker 4 (25:55): And it's pretty incredible to think this was Murrow's first visit to the United States. I read that, by the Speaker 5 (26:03): Way. Yes. Just Speaker 4 (26:06): A minute ago. I Speaker 5 (26:07): Figured. I was like, if you came ready with that, that I was like, man, just know your Murro history. It was a Speaker 4 (26:13): Surprise what piece we were seeing today. Speaker 5 (26:15): Yeah, I did tell you I Speaker 4 (26:16): Didn't get a chance to do any homework, but just peeking at the plate. I mean, that is a phenomenal thing to consider that this Cincinnati really was trailblazing in terms of inviting an international artist. Speaker 5 (26:31): Yeah, I think he had had exhibitions here before, but this was the first time he actually visited the United States, which was pretty crazy, I thought. And I always think about one of the things he said he was inspired by when looking at this piece is the idea of flying and kites. But of course, I always imagine him flying to the United States. I don't know if this is true or just me kind of making this up, but it just seems like an interesting connection that he had never been to the United States before this, and just imagining that trip influencing it in some way. But yeah, actually I think he made most of the work in New York and then brought it here. Speaker 5 (27:18): So he flew here and flew. I think he maybe went to the site first and looked at it and then went back to New York and created the mural and then installed it. But he worked in, I read he painted the blue part first that you were talking about that kind of washy blue, and then he used charcoal to sketch everything out. So then if he didn't like it, he would just kind of brush away the line, that line and then do something different until he was happy with the composition. And then he committed that final layer to paint. And it's really interesting to kind, if you ever here looking at it in person, is to just try to pick a line and follow it and see where it takes you, because sometimes things that look like very contained shapes you realize are made up of overlapping lines, and some of the lines are much longer than you would expect them to be. This little sort of bumpy ridge down here on the lower right hand side, if most of that bottom right side is you'll see the kind of frilly shape if you follow that, it kind of starts over here at this circle and then kind of take your finger and go all the way with that line. It keeps going much farther than you would imagine, and goes all the way up and connects to this other little ball shape on the other side. Speaker 4 (28:50): That's amazing. Speaker 5 (28:51): So it's really interesting the way I actually, I sometimes make coloring sheets for the museum, and so I went through and I actually retraced all of the drawing. My goodness for this. Speaker 4 (29:04): That's Speaker 5 (29:04): Incredible. So it was really, I learned a lot by doing it because it was giving me the chance to look at this piece without any of the color and to see that initial composition. And it's really fascinating because certain things that now stand out so much don't stand out as much just in line as line. Yeah. These certain shapes that become really dominant are, some of them seem like just little piddly things. Speaker 4 (29:40): I think the line work is a really strong element where there are shapes that aren't filled in with color. You just see the black line against the blue and there's some breathing space and it helps you appreciate everything else. It's just not every component is filled in. It's nice to see the line work. I remember, okay, when you first launched the baby tour, the toddler tour. Oh, and we came and saw this piece with my daughter, and it was such a great piece. I think when you talked about the coloring book, that's what reminded me, but a great work of art to share with a younger audience, all the colors, and just to start to ask, what do you see? I mean, to start to see faces or eyeballs or everyone can see something different. Yeah. Speaker 5 (30:34): It's a common way that our docents like to talk about this piece with younger audiences is almost like a cloud gazing kind of activity where you try to find all the different things you see. Speaker 5 (30:49): And I think it's fun because I don't think that's inappropriate way to look at this work either. Sometimes there's this fear that we maybe talk about a work in a way that's supposedly kid friendly, and you're maybe missing the original points, but I actually don't think that's inappropriate here because the way I think Murrow relates to surrealism is very much about that kind of almost a Rorschach test, like psychoanalytic approach that they were very influenced by Freud. And I think when a lot of people think they understand what surrealism is, and a lot of people really like surrealism, and I think they like artists like Dali and Magret because it is this actually very well rendered world that they're creating that is kind of unusual and quirky. And so I think when a lot of people look at Maro, they don't understand necessarily how this is a surrealist work because they think of surrealism as a style of painting and not sort of a philosophy, which is what it really was. It comes out of writing and philosophy more than it does actually a painting style. Anyway, all that to say that approach of like, what do you see, I think it's perfect. It actually fits really well with what the artist was interested in. Speaker 4 (32:20): So Speaker 5 (32:20): I really like doing that with groups. But when you mention the baby tours, Speaker 5 (32:28): This is a perfect piece. We ask people a lot when we start a baby tour if they've been on one before, and if they haven't, we kind of almost always bring them here because no matter what the topic is, we really like looking at this piece with babies because what you said, baby's eyes are just developing and they're first picking up on really high contrast, so black and white, and then they start to see red, yellow, and green next, and they start to see in very basic colors. So this piece is sort of perfect for them, and it's also fun to watch because for anyone, you can't really take it all in at once either. You have to move around as well. I mean, we're standing back far enough that we can at least just move our heads and see it all. But even still, I don't know. I mean, I have pretty bad peripheral vision, but I can't see it all at once. Can you see the whole thing in one? No matter where I look, something's cut off for me. No, Speaker 4 (33:37): It's true. Speaker 5 (33:38): Yeah. So I think it's unusual as an artwork in that way that you almost never get to see it as one composition For me, that always has, this brings a sense of time to it because you're always experiencing one part and then looking at another part, and you kind of move through it in this very floaty, drifty way. Speaker 4 (34:03): Yeah. Just given the scale. Speaker 5 (34:04): Yeah. Just by the virtue of like it's too big. You can't, and I mean, I guess there could be a room you built that you could see it all at once. Actually, now that I think about it, this piece used to be in Gallery 2 29 upstairs. Speaker 4 (34:20): I remember that. Speaker 5 (34:20): Yeah. And we had the kind of curved wall. You probably could get back far enough actually, because from where it was, you might have been able to see the whole thing. And they did the curved wall too, that sort of mimicked, I think the original installation. Speaker 4 (34:36): Apparently Speaker 5 (34:37): The bottom of it had a lot of stains from the backs of people's heads from where it was positioned in the restaurant at the hotel. So people's heads would sit up, they would just sit their head up against it, and the oil from their hair got into the painting. And so the bottom edge is a little bit darker, and I think they've done some conservation work on it to help that out, actually. But Speaker 4 (35:02): You could Well, and I would imagine cigarette smoke would've discolored Speaker 5 (35:04): It. Oh, I'm sure. I mean, yeah, it was the forties. Everybody was a smoke. Nobody cares. Yes. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I'm sure it was not kept in the best conditions in a restaurant like that. You can only imagine. So yeah, from back here, I can't see that line anymore. So I think it's probably been luckily conserved nicely now that you don't see it as much. But I just think that's so crazy that people would just lay their heads against a painting. But I guess it's a good illustration if nothing else of here's why we don't touch artworks. You're going to get head grease all over it. Here's why you don't put your head on artworks. Speaker 4 (35:48): Yeah. Well, on that baby tour, I know we had to, that was part of the teaching was like, don't touch it. Right. Whoa. Actually, though, the baby Speaker 5 (35:57): Tours are easy because they're babies, they're pretty easy to hold back if they want to go for something, it's when they get a little older and they can run and that's when it's trickier to reign 'em in. But yeah, we don't actually worry too much about the babies. They're easy, especially because they're usually being held. So as long as the parents know you have to stay back at this distance, then everyone's pretty okay. Speaker 4 (36:22): Yeah. Well, I'm just so glad that this mural was preserved and that it moved from the Terrace Hotel here, that art museum made the investment because such a beautiful work. And it's great when the art can stand the test of time and endure. Well, thank you so much for joining me Speaker 5 (36:41): Today. Speaker 4 (36:41): Yeah. Oh my gosh, my pleasure. Thanks for having me. Alright. Speaker 2 (36:51): Thank you for listening to Art Palace. We hope you'll be inspired to come visit the Cincinnati Art Museum and have conversations about the art yourself. We just reinstalled our collection of art from African countries, so you'll definitely want to come check out that new gallery. General admission to the museum is always free, and we also offer free parking special exhibitions on view right now are Van Gogh into the Undergrowth Kentucky Renaissance, the Lexington Camera Club, and its community. 1954 to 1974, the book of only Enoch and the Jackleg Testament. Part one, Jack and Eve employed a staff art exhibition. Join us for our ugly Christmas sweater party on December 22nd from five to 8:00 PM Eat, drink, be merry and wear your Tackiest Christmas sweaters while being serenaded by the young professionals, coral Collective of Cincinnati. This is a free event with food and drink purchases available for program reservations and more information, visit cincinnati art museum.org. You can follow us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and even Snapchat. Our theme song is Romal By Back Allow. Hey, are you listening on an iPhone? Why not subscribe to our podcast on iTunes? And while you're at it, leave us a nice review too. I'm Russell Iig, and this has been Art Palace produced by the Cincinnati Art Museum. Speaker 2 (38:21): Today's cool person is Colleen Houston. Oh, I said it.