Speaker 1 (00:00):
Coming up on Art Palace. 

Speaker 2 (00:02):
Alah in Spanish means if we are lucky, we're going to have it. It comes from Alah. That means if Allah is willing, 

Speaker 1 (00:24):
Welcome to Art Palace, produced by Cincinnati Art Museum. This is your host, Russell eig. Here at the Art Palace, we meet cool people and then talk to them about art. Today's cool person is museum docent Marina Garcia Gomez, who is giving me a tour of the new special exhibition Treasures of the Spanish World. Before we get out into the galleries, I wanted to just sort of talk to you a little bit about some of the things you've done here at the museum and just give a little introduction to you. So maybe just start by letting us know who you are. 

Speaker 2 (01:04):
Well, my name is Marina Garcia Gam, and I love art. I have a degree in fine arts, and I also have a master's, and art is very important for me. 

Speaker 1 (01:17):
How did you get interested in art? 

Speaker 2 (01:20):
Well, someone told me about the opportunity to become a docent, and I came and I went through all the testing you guys do. 

Speaker 1 (01:31):
It is pretty rigorous. 

Speaker 2 (01:32):
Yes. And they said yes. And I said, wow. And it was a very nice experience because I had a reminder of many of the things that I studied during college because you have to go through a very rigorous training too. So I liked it. I liked it very much. 

Speaker 1 (01:53):
So when did you, though become interested in art earlier, but why did you end up studying art in college? 

Speaker 2 (02:01):
Well, first of all, it was like a struggle because my parents were very worried about, they said I was going to have a lot of economical, struggling. They didn't want me to study that, but I was very stubborn. And the reason is because I was, and I still am an idealistic person, so I thought that art, it's a very nice mean to make people aware of the reality. And I at the time admire very much cicadas and all the cicadas was a muralist, a Mexican muralist, and he was a very strong man, and he used art to promote social justice. 

Speaker 1 (02:58):
Wow. 

Speaker 2 (02:58):
Yes. The same than Fredas, Carlos husband, Diego 

Speaker 1 (03:06):
Rivera, 

Speaker 2 (03:07):
Diego Rivera. Then there is another great muralist. In fact, they're called the three great new Mexican muralist, and his name is Orozco, and his works are amazing too. So those were my role model 

Speaker 1 (03:25):
And 

Speaker 2 (03:26):
I pretty much, because I am an idealistic person, thought one could do a lot of things throughout. That's why I got interested in art. 

Speaker 1 (03:37):
Nice. So I wanted you to just tell us a little bit about how you came to start our Spanish tours here and how that kind of came about and let people know about them. I don't know if, I mean, they're very popular sometimes. I don't know if we need more publicity. 

Speaker 2 (03:53):
We do. 

Speaker 1 (03:54):
You do. You've done, 

Speaker 2 (03:55):
Because 

Speaker 1 (03:56):
I feel like you've done an amazing job though of really starting that from scratch, and I've watched them grow to be very, very popular. 

Speaker 2 (04:05):
Well, I became a dozen six years ago, so the first two years for me, were all about getting to know the museum and getting to know you guys, all the stuff that work here. And then in reality, I was a little insecure because I didn't feel that the English I spoke was good enough. But being a dozen here at the museum helped me very much to dare 

Speaker 1 (04:36):
To 

Speaker 2 (04:37):
Go outside my comfort zone. And I began to speak more English, and that was amazing for me as an individual. So after two years, I realized that I didn't see very often people speaking Spanish in the museum. And I thought, well, why? Because I really think this museum is a very wonderful place, and we are very lucky in Cincinnati to have this museum, first of all, because everything is for free. You can park for free, you can enter for free. You can have a dozen talking about art for free. So to get more knowledgeable of art. So I asked for permission. That's what I did to begin to organize this Spanish tour museum, a hundred percent in Spanish. And well, some people were really nice and they were willing to help asking the right person in the museum, within the museum. And they said yes. I don't know exactly who said yes, but I was very because of that. At the time, there was a very nice lady that worked here, her name is Angelina. And Angelina said, I will help you to make people aware of this tour within the museum. And she was amazing. So I didn't feel it was by myself because I had, 

Speaker 2 (06:18):
This tour is monthly. It is once a month, sometimes the first or the second Saturday of the month at noon. So in the beginning, some of the tours were a failure. Nobody showed up. 

Speaker 1 (06:36):
And 

Speaker 2 (06:37):
I really was very, I got sad, but you guys, including you, Russell, you would tell me, don't worry, 

Speaker 1 (06:44):
It'll 

Speaker 2 (06:45):
Get better. And some of you guys cheered up for me. Well, I kept trying and trying and persevering, and then some people began to show up, and I was very lucky because some of the people that began to show up were teachers 

Speaker 1 (07:11):
And 

Speaker 2 (07:11):
They liked what I was doing. So I can think about Berta Garcia, hopefully she'll listen to this because I am really grateful. I also, one guy, his name is Henry Rivas, 

Speaker 1 (07:28):
He's 

Speaker 2 (07:29):
In charge of a website where he posts all the activities Latinos like to do. So he said to me, well, I'll post it. So everybody that gets in knows about it. Then through Berta, they began to bring her students, some of them, the ones that wanted to come. And then another teacher that was amazing, her name is Marta Simmons, came to one of them of the tours and told me that she was a Xavier 

Speaker 1 (08:06):
Teacher. 

Speaker 2 (08:08):
And she said, well, I will tell the teachers from Xavier that we have this opportunity for our Spanish students, so if they want to get an extra credit, they can just come and listen to your tour and make a report and give it to us. I am really amazed because I really was worried about Latino people not coming to the museum. But suddenly I realized that in some of the tours, like 70% of the people that was participating were North Americans, and they were people that liked Spanish. I'm not talking about the students. I'm talking about people from Cincinnati that liked the Latin American culture and they wanted to get better at Spanish. So for me, to me, it was amazing because there were people that were interested in our culture in a different way. So what we have now is some Latin people that comes, and every time that I'm going to have a tour, I have some people that I call, I send emails and I tell them, we're going to have a tour, and then they pass on the information. And then what is amazing is also all those American people that come, 

Speaker 2 (09:48):
They want to listen Spanish, and they're live and they love art. 

Speaker 1 (09:53):
So 

Speaker 2 (09:55):
The museum is a nice place for them to come. 

Speaker 1 (09:58):
Well, that's great. Well, we're going to go look at the new exhibition. I'm going to mess up the title every time. Really long's from the Hispanic Society. 

Speaker 2 (10:10):
I have some of the same, an 

Speaker 1 (10:11):
Amazing collection. So if you're ready, we can go on up. 

Speaker 2 (10:14):
Yes, let's go. 

Speaker 1 (10:15):
Okay, awesome. So we are actually in the exhibition right now. We're right at the beginning. And you wanted to talk a little bit about the labels in this exhibition? 

Speaker 2 (10:29):
Yes. It was a really nice surprise to see that we have labels in English and Spanish, 

Speaker 1 (10:36):
Probably. 

Speaker 2 (10:36):
It's a bilingual exposition. Right. So it is incredible. 

Speaker 1 (10:40):
Yeah, it was actually, I didn't know that was going to be the case either. And when I walked in, it was surprising. I don't think I've ever seen it. And there's been probably lots of times where it would've been nice to have bilingual labels for many shows, but this one I guess really makes sense to. 

Speaker 2 (10:57):
Yes. 

Speaker 1 (10:57):
So yeah, it was nice to see that. I'm sure it's a lot friendlier to a lot of people to be able to just read that and 

Speaker 2 (11:04):
Yes, in their own language and Well, it's because this exhibition is the way it is organized to me. It's really nice because it's chronologically the first gallery we can visit. It's about the romances in Spain. Well, it wasn't called Spain at the time, it was called Espania. Well, it was Latin, right? Yes. 

Speaker 1 (11:32):
Whatever the Latin version of that where 

Speaker 2 (11:34):
It's Exactly, yes. So we can see how the Roman art was developed in Spain and is Roman art, and it has characteristic of Roman art. And we even have a more ancient pieces 

Speaker 1 (11:55):
That 

Speaker 2 (11:55):
Come from a culture before the romance. Oh, wow. That's called the Beller culture, and it's related to Celtics. So here, what is, I think very important for the people that will be willing to come is to learn that the Spanish people, they come from many origins. They have d n a from the cells from the Roman, and then later on from the mos or from the Muslims. And because they were there for 800 years and the Jewish people, they were there for 1000 years. So of course, because they were living together, there is a very intense interchange of cultures, and you can see that in the pieces of art. 

Speaker 1 (12:51):
Yeah, that is fascinating. And these pieces, these first ones that are kind of the first case you've come to, these are really old. I mean, this one says 2,800 b c e, possibly. So 

Speaker 2 (13:03):
I 

Speaker 1 (13:03):
Mean, 

Speaker 2 (13:04):
That's 

Speaker 1 (13:04):
So old 

Speaker 2 (13:06):
And something else. They are very, very, very old. And they are in very good shape. 

Speaker 1 (13:15):
They're 

Speaker 2 (13:15):
Very well, how to say, when you take care of them, 

Speaker 1 (13:19):
Conserved. 

Speaker 2 (13:20):
Conserved, yes. So we are very lucky being able to see these kind of things in this museum. 

Speaker 1 (13:26):
Yeah, 

Speaker 2 (13:27):
That's great. Yes. And then as I said, we have the, it's called Uras. It's the three cultures, Spain. The ones that we have in this exhibition are amazing because you can see how the Muslims brought to Spain many techniques, many knowledge. For example, their math, their philosophy of course, and the techniques they used. And there was a mixture of the European culture and the Muslim culture at this period of time. 

Speaker 1 (14:09):
Yeah. 

Speaker 2 (14:10):
Yes. 

Speaker 1 (14:11):
There's actually, when you mentioned that if you look at some of these ceramic pieces, and I'm thinking about the Islamic pieces downstairs in the near Eastern Gallery, 

Speaker 2 (14:20):
And 

Speaker 1 (14:21):
When you go through there and some of that ceramics, ceramics, it's like there's a lot of similarities actually. You can see the sort of design, 

Speaker 2 (14:27):
The styles. Yes. They use a lot of shapes that those shapes are organic and very geometrical shapes. For example, here we have mud and it has inlets of ivory. The work, the technique is amazing. It's very delicate. And this kind of works come from the Muslim world. 

Speaker 1 (14:59):
Well, let's move on. 

Speaker 2 (15:00):
Yes, let's move on. Because here in the next gallery, there is something that is amazing. And when I saw that it was, how can I tell it to me? It was, I cannot have even words to describe this. This is a baptism mall fountain, so it was in a church. So it is a huge bassing. And you can see that on the side, there is a cross with some ornaments at the end of the cross. And there is a Christo, it's called Christo, and it's an abbreviation of Christ. And this is supposed to be there to protect the Bain, but here it is not very obvious. But this Bain is from the time Muslim, Jewish, Jewish people and Christians would live together. 

Speaker 1 (16:01):
So 

Speaker 2 (16:02):
There are in the lower part of the Christo Graham, the hand of Fatima, that is supposed to be the daughter of the prophet. And so we have represented in this baptismal basin, three cultures and three religions, because this hand is also called the Hamsa hand, and it's used for protection in the Jewish culture. 

Speaker 1 (16:28):
Wow. 

Speaker 2 (16:28):
So it is amazing to see how in this period of time they could live together. Of course, it wasn't easy or they had some problems sometimes. But one of the things that was amazing from the cultural point of view is how they exchange knowledge. All those three cultures at this moment, they exchange a lot of philosophical knowledge, math, like in Spanish, many many words have influence of Arabic. So all the words that begin with al like algebra, and in English too, 

Speaker 1 (17:09):
Algebra 

Speaker 2 (17:10):
Algorithm, everything comes from Arabic. And also the words that begin with g u A, and we still use these words until today. In fact, we have a word that is a very nice word that is, 

Speaker 1 (17:27):
Oh, 

Speaker 2 (17:28):
Oh, in Spanish means we are lucky we're going to have it. Oh, this would happen. Yes. But it comes from Arabic and in me, and it comes from Alah. 

Speaker 1 (17:43):
That 

Speaker 2 (17:43):
Means if Allah is willing. So in Spanish, we use this word all the time, and we don't know it. Many of us don't know it, but it comes from Arabic. 

Speaker 1 (17:54):
Wow, that's fascinating. 

Speaker 2 (17:55):
It is fascinating. 

Speaker 1 (17:56):
That's 

Speaker 2 (17:57):
Great. And there's something that is very important to understand is that from now on, religious artists very important in Spain. So you're going to see a lot of sculptures of saints 

Speaker 1 (18:11):
And 

Speaker 2 (18:12):
People that are interested in saints and the Bibles and thing, and the stories of the Bible. They're going to see representations of those saints and their lives. 

Speaker 1 (18:25):
This exhibition is full of these wooden sculptures that are painted so nice. That's probably one of my favorite things about this exhibition are all these sculptures, they're just beautiful. 

Speaker 2 (18:38):
And it is very familiar to the Latin American people because when the people go to the church, that's what they see. That's all the icons they're going to see inside the churches. It's like entering a church. And then we have this, it's a Bible that is a Jewish Bible, and it's written in Hebrew. And what is amazing about it is how this Bible survived. Because in 1492, the king and the queen asked all the Jewish people to leave Spain, all to convert. And this Bible was kept in a family that they had to leave. So they immigrate to Portugal 

Speaker 1 (19:31):
Because 

Speaker 2 (19:31):
In Portugal, they didn't ask yet 

Speaker 1 (19:35):
For 

Speaker 2 (19:35):
Jewish to live. 

Speaker 1 (19:36):
So 

Speaker 2 (19:37):
They kept this for many, many years. And then this Bible was kept in secret for years and years and years until the Hispanic Society of America bought it. 

Speaker 1 (19:51):
Okay. 

Speaker 2 (19:52):
Yes. So because one of the things that Isabella and Fernando that were the Catholic king and queen 

Speaker 1 (20:01):
Did 

Speaker 2 (20:01):
It was to burn all those books. 

Speaker 1 (20:05):
Oh, wow. 

Speaker 2 (20:06):
Yes. They wanted to burn everything that was related to other religions that were not Catholics. Yes. 

Speaker 1 (20:12):
Wow. Is that the same Isabelle of Christopher Columbus fame? 

Speaker 2 (20:18):
Yes, it is the 

Speaker 1 (20:19):
Same way. I was thinking of that timeline works out, right? 

Speaker 2 (20:22):
It's 

Speaker 1 (20:23):
1490s and yeah. 

Speaker 2 (20:24):
Yes. 1492. 

Speaker 1 (20:25):
Yeah. So the Bible you're talking about, I mean, the illustration on it is just so meticulous and Oh, it's just really gorgeous. It is 

Speaker 2 (20:34):
Gorgeous. And talking about what you said about the period of time that was made, we can find in this exhibition, books that were made by hand in the 10th century, 11th century. So we're going to find books made by hand. And as you said, they're meticulous. They're made with gold. And the illustrations are so wonderful that they look like paintings. If there are people listening to us that love books, this is the right place to be. 

Speaker 1 (21:16):
I love this room too, because when you come in, it feels like you're in a library and they've mixed the books that are part of the exhibition with these other books, catalogs and things you can sit down and read. So it's just a very cozy feeling room. It feels like you're in an old library. So I just love what they've done with this exhibition in this way. 

Speaker 2 (21:37):
Yes, it is amazing. And then we come to see the Renaissance and baroque in Spain that is called Dero. That is very, very important in Spain. And because they had so much money at the time, they had the opportunity to, the culture would develop very much, and there are paintings and portraits that are amazing. Yes. 

Speaker 1 (22:12):
Yeah. We're standing in front of this painting here, this sort of man in armor, and he's, the armor is so ornate and just beautifully painted, the little reflections on it. It's just beautiful. It's an amazing painting. 

Speaker 2 (22:28):
And if you love jewelry, you can, there is a display of the finest jewelry. I incredible. Yes. 

Speaker 1 (22:38):
Yeah. 

Speaker 2 (22:38):
Yes, very. And with, again, the technique that was used by the Muslims and the Jews. So it's amazing. That is called Phila 

Speaker 1 (22:51):
Phila 

Speaker 2 (22:52):
Grama 

Speaker 1 (22:52):
Grammar. 

Speaker 2 (22:53):
Yes. And maybe we have the translation here. No, there. No, I don't find, how would you say phila in English? I'm sorry. 

Speaker 1 (23:04):
I wonder if it's like filigree. 

Speaker 2 (23:06):
Yes. Filigree. Filigree. 

Speaker 1 (23:08):
Filigree is usually any sort of ornamental thing is usually what we call that design that's very ornamented and very 

Speaker 2 (23:17):
Decorative in jewelry is very, very delicate. And all those, this knowledge of Muslim jewelries went up to Italy through Sicily and to Spain, through Seville. And you can find beautiful pieces of jewelry in those places. And you can find these pieces of jewelry in Latin America because they brought these techniques to Latin America. 

Speaker 1 (23:51):
Right? 

Speaker 2 (23:51):
Yes. 

Speaker 1 (23:52):
Should probably mention this El Greco here. 

Speaker 2 (23:54):
Oh, yes, of course. 

Speaker 1 (23:55):
Probably shouldn't walk by one of the biggest names in the exhibition in something. Yeah. 

Speaker 2 (24:01):
And here in the museum, in the permanent collection, we have a Greco. Yes. And we have another one right now because of this exhibition that is that it's like in the moment you see it, it's a Greco. 

Speaker 1 (24:17):
Oh, yeah. It's very, very easy to identify that sort of the way the bodies feel kind of twisty 

Speaker 2 (24:25):
And the colors. 

Speaker 1 (24:26):
Yeah, it's very stark. There's always that really harsh white. And this is painting as of St. Jerome. And so his beard has that really bright white, but then that really contrasty dark background. It's very similar to our painting of our crucifixion, which also has a really dark background. And then the crucifixion is very bright. It stands out. And I love how tiny his head is. Yes. Look how small his head is. I mean, that's what I mean. It's so expressive in a way that's kind of shocking for 1600. 

Speaker 2 (25:02):
And the reason this contrast is very, very strong, because he was influenced by the Italian 10 emo. And what happened is that the contrast between the bright part and the dark part is very, very evident. 

Speaker 1 (25:22):
Well, and it makes it very dramatic feeling too. It makes it feel so dramatic when you have it, that kind of contrast. But yeah, now that we're talking about it, I would love to see this painting with our El Greco 

Speaker 2 (25:36):
To it, 

Speaker 1 (25:36):
Especially because Saint Drum is looking at a crucifix. And then it would be amazing to see the crucifixion next to it. Now I'm like, ah, it's what a shame. We couldn't do that. But they're two different collections. We didn't combine our collections in any way with this exhibition. And there was certainly more than enough to fill the space with. 

Speaker 2 (25:56):
And one of the characteristic of the Spanish art and painting is this dramatization using those, how you say bright, the contrast of the bright and the darkness. And especially during the Barak. 

Speaker 1 (26:11):
Yeah. 

Speaker 2 (26:11):
Yes, yes. And you can see this here in three of those of the paintings. 

Speaker 1 (26:19):
Yeah. Yeah. 

Speaker 2 (26:19):
Yes. 

Speaker 1 (26:20):
They do have that. A lot of them have that really stark contrast. 

Speaker 2 (26:24):
So we should talk about this. 

Speaker 1 (26:28):
Oh, yeah. Because 

Speaker 2 (26:29):
Is Velasquez, isn't 

Speaker 1 (26:30):
It? Yes. Yeah. I think both of these are Velasquez, aren't they? 

Speaker 2 (26:33):
Both of them. 

Speaker 1 (26:34):
Yeah. Yes, they are. Yeah. 

Speaker 2 (26:36):
Yes. And many of us have seen, well, we have Velasquez here in the museum too. 

Speaker 1 (26:42):
Yeah. We have one that I think is attributed to the studio of Velazquez. So that's one of those, I'm not sure nobody wants to commit and say it is I guess a fully Velazquez, but we believe he was maybe involved at some hand. I mean, I think when I look at the painting styles of, I mean, it feels very Velasquez. Our painting does. And it's easy to see the connections between those. He has such a distinct way of painting faces that when you see it, you're like, oh yeah, that's Velasquez. 

Speaker 2 (27:12):
Yeah. The Manina, this painting was, he's like main piece of art because he taught the world how to see an objects to different perspective. 

Speaker 1 (27:31):
So 

Speaker 2 (27:31):
That's why he's so important in the history of art. So well here in those paintings, we cannot see that, but we can see that he's a master of, he knows what he's doing. This man that we are seeing, he's a very important man because of course, they had to pay for the painting and just very important people or the church could pay for Velazquez. But this one is, I think his granddaughter or something like that. I 

Speaker 1 (28:01):
Feel like they said they weren't exactly sure who it was, but they have probably some theories. I think that's a guess. 

Speaker 2 (28:09):
Yes. It says like portrait of a little girl, but it's so nice. It is really nice when 

Speaker 1 (28:15):
You see it. Yeah. It says they continue to puzzle over whom it represents. So I don't know for sure. But it's funny because this painting over here is so big, but I am so much more drawn to this painting, and I think it captures such character in her face. But then I also love how the body is so brushy and you have these different levels of finish on the painting. It's a much more interesting painting to me. 

Speaker 2 (28:45):
Well, it's really nice. Really. 

Speaker 1 (28:47):
It's beautiful. And 

Speaker 2 (28:48):
Here it's where we are going to find the map of America Buche. I think it's his. 

Speaker 1 (28:59):
Yeah. This is the nephew of Mego. Buche. 

Speaker 2 (29:02):
Yeah. And there is no Peru, there is no Colombia, Venezuela. No. Yet, because they didn't find, at the time, they didn't know it existed. 

Speaker 1 (29:15):
Yeah. It's really incomplete. 

Speaker 2 (29:17):
And what about Texas and Canada? It didn't exist at the time, apparently. 

Speaker 1 (29:24):
Yeah. And it's funny, I love things like this because in one way it feels really distorted, but then at the same time, the map that we're used to seeing is also a distortion because it's a projection from a round object. It's not totally accurate either when we see any flat representation of the earth has always got some kind of distortion on it. But yeah, it's a really quirky piece. I love this. And I love the little illustrations of animals that you might find in these places. You have these little camels and things in the deserts, and it's really nice. 

Speaker 2 (30:05):
And then believe it, or no, we have Mexican codis and we have a CO is like a document where, and here specifically, it's about the genealogy of Mwe. That was a ruler in one of the realms of Mexico. And this is incredible because it was made in about 1570s, in the 1570s, and it was made by indigenous people. 

Speaker 1 (30:47):
So it's just a sort of parchment paper. I love, you can see the stitching that's like holding the paper together in places. 

Speaker 2 (30:54):
Yes. 

Speaker 1 (30:55):
It's so crazy. 

Speaker 2 (30:57):
And what is amazing is that we still can see this 

Speaker 1 (31:01):
And 

Speaker 2 (31:01):
That it is here. That's amazing. 

Speaker 1 (31:04):
Yeah. I love these. 

Speaker 2 (31:06):
And for example, here we have pieces from all the Americas. We have things from Colombia, from Peru, from Mexico. And for here, there is a piece of ceramics that was made in Puebla that is a city, city in Mexico. But it's amazing because we have to remember that the Spanish had territories in all the world, in the Americas and in Asia too. 

Speaker 1 (31:37):
So 

Speaker 2 (31:37):
In this piece, we can see Asian influence, Chinese influence, and we can see the technique of the Muslims. And also there are few things that tell us is not from Spain, that it is from the Americas, from Mexico. 

Speaker 1 (31:57):
Interesting. 

Speaker 2 (31:58):
So there is a mixture of cultures here in just one piece. So right now we are in 1660, so it has been quite a bit of years that have passed. And here in one piece, we have all the knowledge all together. 

Speaker 1 (32:18):
Yes. 

Speaker 2 (32:20):
Here we can see a map of Texas when Texas was not, it was United States, yet they are some of the cities that exist 

Speaker 1 (32:32):
Today. 

Speaker 2 (32:33):
Today 

Speaker 1 (32:33):
In the United States. 

Speaker 2 (32:34):
In the United States, 

Speaker 1 (32:38):
There was large portions of the United States that used to be part of Mexico. 

Speaker 2 (32:43):
And we have a few maps of, for example, the Mexico City here when the city was very small. Of course, this is from 70, 76. And when I think that Mexico City right now has 23 million of people, and I see this, and I see this is the origins of Mexico City. And in Mexico there is still this downtown place. And at the time, the city of Mexico was called the city of Chateau or palaces because there were a lot of them. But right now you cannot say that anymore. 

Speaker 1 (33:24):
No more, no more palaces. 

Speaker 2 (33:25):
No palaces anymore. And this is a view of, we call it, it's called the so of the, where there is the presidential, the presidential palace, and then the main church of the Mexico City, the cathedral in Mexico City. And this what is called the SoCal, has changed so many times. And this is one of the first ones. So if there are some Mexicans that would like to come and see this, they will be surprised. 

Speaker 1 (34:01):
Well, I was blown away by this piece right next to it, which is sort of the same view of the same plaza. But it's all in cut paper. And it is incredible because it is every single little detail of this, it looks like it has this beautiful lace around it. But everything is just cut paper. It's full of these detailed little lines that make up, that almost look like a drawing or an engraving. But they're just cut out of this single sheet of paper. It's absolutely mind blowing to me. 

Speaker 2 (34:30):
And it's what we call in Mexico. It's called Pap picado. 

Speaker 1 (34:36):
It's 

Speaker 2 (34:36):
Cut paper, but the technique, guess where is it from? 

Speaker 1 (34:42):
Where? 

Speaker 2 (34:42):
China. 

Speaker 1 (34:43):
Oh, really? 

Speaker 2 (34:45):
Yes. 

Speaker 1 (34:47):
Again, all that global influence of everybody moving all over the world. 

Speaker 2 (34:51):
This here, it's painted on metal. So the reason they did that is because if you see this painting, I'm sorry, we didn't say that. This was Saint Michael's striking down the rebellious angels. And this is all on copper. And the reason they use the copper is because the copper reflects more the light. So when I saw this painting, the first thing that I thought, it looked like three dimensional. 

Speaker 1 (35:26):
It has so much depth to it. Yeah, you're right. 

Speaker 2 (35:29):
It is different from what we have seen until now. 

Speaker 1 (35:32):
There's also something about the surface of that copper probably just being so smooth that changes the way, even compared to painting on wood panel or something, there is a certain different smoothness that the copper gives the painting that you wouldn't get maybe from another surface. 

Speaker 2 (35:52):
Yes. Yes. It is amazing. And what about this Russell? 

Speaker 1 (35:56):
Oh my gosh, yes. I saw this and was like, what is happening? 

Speaker 2 (36:01):
And this is the wedding at Canna, and this is a Mexican painting too. And the thing is that it's oil mixed with in on a panel, a wood panel, but with in lave of mother of Pearl. 

Speaker 1 (36:18):
Yeah. So it's got this shimmery, glowy kind of weird quality to it. And it's especially strange because it is mixed with the painting. So your eyes sort of can't always tell what is just the sort of mother of pearl 

Speaker 2 (36:35):
If it's like something bright that comes. Yeah. 

Speaker 1 (36:39):
Yes. 

Speaker 2 (36:40):
It is very peculiar. 

Speaker 1 (36:42):
Yeah. It's really eye catching. When you come around and you see this, it really pulled me in. And there's something about, I don't know, things with mother of Pearl that could come off as sort of, I don't know, kitschy or souvenir art or something you might buy, but this is so much stranger than that that it really, I'm really into it. And I think it is the way it mixes the two techniques. So Well, it's just really strange in the way those reflective bits are making up both the architecture, the sort of shiny plates in the background. It's like it's used very well. And the figures in front, who I'm assuming we have Mary and Jesus here. 

Speaker 2 (37:29):
If you think about the technique and you think about the value of the painting by itself, not about the theme. This is a masterpiece. 

Speaker 1 (37:37):
Oh yeah. 

Speaker 2 (37:38):
This is something that is so well done, and it's something that breathtaking, at least for me. It is amazing. It is amazing. And then when I see these, I remember those pieces that we saw. They had a Muslim influence within late, so why did they choose to do that? Is because they already saw these kind of things. So there is an influence, even though this was made in Mexico in 1696, 

Speaker 1 (38:20):
But that sort of technique might still be sort of making its way all the way from through Spain. 

Speaker 2 (38:24):
And in China, they have this technique too. There is an influence from Asia to Europe, and then from the Muslim world to Europe. 

Speaker 1 (38:35):
And 

Speaker 2 (38:35):
Then all this knowledge came to the Americas. And that's something that sometimes we don't think about it. So when we think, oh, this is from Spain. Okay, yes, it's from Spain. But 

Speaker 1 (38:47):
I mean, I think even the show has such a big scope and big scale of being both Spain and Latin America. But even then, what you're saying is it brings in even wider and huger influences from all over. Yeah. 

Speaker 2 (39:03):
Yes. 

Speaker 1 (39:04):
Well, do you want to go over to the last part of the exhibition? If 

Speaker 2 (39:08):
You want to? 

Speaker 1 (39:09):
Yeah. Let's just quickly try to run over there. I don't want people to miss it either. So we're sort of standing in front of the Duchess of Alba by Goya. And this is in the last part of the exhibition, which this show is so large that it had to be split into three different galleries. Basically. We had the two we just went through, which is our Western Southern galleries, which is pretty normal to have a show that runs across both of those. But it's very uncommon for it to go all the way into the shift gallery here also on the second floor. So definitely don't want to miss this part of the exhibition because it is got some of the really nice highlights. And this is sort of the latest work in the exhibition too. So we're getting into the 19th century almost here with this painting. This is from 1797. So just at the end of the 18th century, 

Speaker 2 (40:10):
GA was one of the greatest, and his technique is amazing. And apparently this woman, Duchess of Alva was his life crush. 

Speaker 1 (40:21):
Yeah. He had 

Speaker 2 (40:22):
A crush. The rings on her hand, one of the rings says Goya. So apparently the Dutchess never saw this painting. 

Speaker 1 (40:34):
Oh, really? 

Speaker 2 (40:35):
Yes. I don't know if she would have been very happy seeing herself with a Goya ring 

Speaker 1 (40:44):
Ring. Yeah. It's almost like he's sort of marrying her in a way. And then her finger, if you follow that finger, she's pointing at the sand where it says at her feet, solo Goya. 

Speaker 2 (40:56):
Exactly. Just Goya the greatest. Right? Like sgo, he's a master of painting and looking as the embroidery in the clothes of this woman, the way he uses the brush and the S spatula and the way he puts the gold on the top of the black, and the expression of this woman is amazing. You can see all these detail things with the background that is almost like a dream. 

Speaker 1 (41:40):
It's very impressionistic, which is a word. It's kind of not fair to use because that hadn't happened yet. But that's how advanced he is, that it's hard not to think of it. And I feel like this is one of those paintings you also really need to come see in person because well, the images that you'll see of it when it's reproduced are fine. It's a nice painting. But you miss that difference of technique when you don't see it in person. Because like you're saying, from a distance, it feels very both accurate in the way that things are rendered. And you're talking about the fabric, the way you can see through the transparency of the materials. But then when you get up close, it just, it's paint. And he's letting you see that it's paint in a way that is really modern for 

Speaker 2 (42:33):
The time. 

Speaker 1 (42:34):
People weren't doing things like that for another a hundred years almost. When I look at her sleeve, it reminds me of the kind of brushstrokes you're going to see in our Van Gogh painting. And about a hundred years from now, right? You're going to see in the 1890s, you're going to see this again, but all over. And here is where somebody's kind of starting that. And it's crazy. Even this background here that you were talking about feels sort of dreamy. It reminds me of foggy. It reminds me of the painting by a Cincinnati artist in the Cincinnati wing by Totman. That's called springtime, I think that he painted in France. But it's this very hazy impressionistic landscape that again, would be happening over a hundred years in the future. So it was just like that's how ahead of his time he was. He's the best. 

Speaker 2 (43:32):
Yeah, no. And then we have this, these that you could say it's like a mundane theme. 

Speaker 1 (43:41):
And 

Speaker 2 (43:41):
We have the world of Gaja in his printings where he was iCal and he was very critical of the society at the time. No, he's known as a master of printing. And he was very, very brave because he would make evident injustices when it was a time he couldn't have done that. The sensor was, and sometimes, and when you look at them, it's something like very, here, it's a bull, a bull attacked by dogs. But if you think in another way, in a political way, the bull is symbolic for Spain. It represents Spain. Who are the dogs? 

Speaker 1 (44:45):
What's 

Speaker 2 (44:46):
Happening at the time in Spain that, because those are not nice dogs. They are like hunting dogs. They are very violent dogs. So what is going on here? 

Speaker 1 (45:04):
He's 

Speaker 2 (45:04):
Telling us what is going on in Spain right now. 

Speaker 1 (45:09):
And also there's sort of these people watching in the background, and it's like, are they setting this up? Or what is their role in this? I think that's also a part of that kind of social critique. 

Speaker 2 (45:23):
You're 

Speaker 1 (45:23):
Also sort of hinting at there 

Speaker 2 (45:26):
And you go, we have 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 for them. 

Speaker 1 (45:30):
But 

Speaker 2 (45:31):
Each one you can spend a period amount of time looking at them and thinking, what is the meaning? What is the underline of each one of them? 

Speaker 1 (45:44):
Yeah. 

Speaker 2 (45:44):
Yes. 

Speaker 1 (45:45):
And he's unafraid of making these scenes that can become grotesque or sometimes sort of really silly. I mean, this one is one of my favorites. This guy sort peeking through this peep looking at a peep show while his butt is open in his pants. And this lady's looking at that. So it's just multi-levels of voyeurism. 

Speaker 2 (46:16):
And it says, totally, totally. It means total all the worlds. All the world. All the worlds. So you can, yeah. So Tu, 

Speaker 1 (46:31):
Which is such a, again, it's so funny because it doesn't tell you exactly what to think. No, it just, it's 

Speaker 2 (46:39):
Totally subjective. 

Speaker 1 (46:41):
So he lets you figure out what that means in a way 

Speaker 2 (46:45):
To 

Speaker 1 (46:46):
You, how is this all of the world? What does that mean on a grander sense? You could easily give that a title that would make it a lot smaller, even something kind of silly or funny. But by calling it that, it gives it this big implications. Oh, all the world. 

Speaker 2 (47:05):
Yeah. 

Speaker 1 (47:05):
So 

Speaker 2 (47:07):
Let's think about it. Yes. And this is another one. This is go too. But this is, to me, it's more classic. 

Speaker 1 (47:17):
You're right. And I think even painting style, it doesn't feel as radical as the Duchess does. And it's funny when you think about, probably that has to do with also the tastes of the people who are buying the work. Probably a 

Speaker 2 (47:34):
Little bit, 

Speaker 1 (47:34):
Yes. 

Speaker 2 (47:34):
Maybe. Well, we have to remember, I go, yeah, he died in his house in a closed house. He didn't want to leave the house anymore, and he kind of became crazy with his. So it is very interesting to relate what we're seeing the period of time. We should have seen that too. And then here we are in more modern world, and we have things that are familiar to us like art, that when I see these kind of things, it's made in Catalonia, in Barcelona. And because it is closer to France, it has this perion twist. I 

Speaker 1 (48:31):
Mean, it looks like, I mean, it's funny. This is from 1900. And would, if you had put this in the Paris 1900 exhibition, 

Speaker 2 (48:38):
It would be 

Speaker 1 (48:39):
Look right at home. 

Speaker 2 (48:40):
Yes. Right, right. At home. Yes. That's exactly, 

Speaker 1 (48:44):
Yeah. The French influence on it is very, it looks like a piece by Tuusula track or something. 

Speaker 2 (48:48):
Something like that. Well, and there are wonderful, incredible pieces of paintings, and when you see these paintings look at their faces, it's very expressionist. I'm not saying there is an expression. Normally the Spanish painting, not all of it, of course, but from this time also, their faces, their expression is very strong. And we have this painting that is a portrait of a family of the gypsy bullfighter. 

Speaker 1 (49:29):
These paintings have some really unusual colors. I feel like the greens in them are just so intense, and it's got a sort of unusual palette. But that's what I'm sort of most attracted to. There's also something I love about this painting is how everybody really, it feels like an individual portrait of almost every person. Each person you can look at and get a real story for them, just like what's going on? They're all such characters. 

Speaker 2 (50:00):
Yes. Well, supposedly the woman had a very important place in the family. So you can see this woman just in the middle reinforcing this idea 

Speaker 1 (50:16):
That 

Speaker 2 (50:17):
She's the one that rules. 

Speaker 1 (50:20):
That's true. That's great. I mean, that is a total reversal of maybe some other kinds of family portraits might see where you would have the strong man in this sort of patriarchal way. And here we have this older woman who's the matriarch of the family who is the center of it, and she's sort of seated with a lot of authority. It's like a throne. And I love the way he's so great at painting the highlights on the rings and things and the little reflections. 

Speaker 2 (50:52):
And this was painted by Ignacio, is Valletta that is supposed to be one of the, how you say, important painters at the time. Right? 

Speaker 1 (51:04):
Yeah. I'm glad you handled that name, because I was looking at it and I was like, it's like, 

Speaker 2 (51:10):
And then what we have here that is amazing. 

Speaker 1 (51:13):
Oh, these are so good. 

Speaker 2 (51:14):
It's the painting from Soroya that is known as one of the most important impressionist, or they call it pist, that is related to landscapes of the time. And when you see those paintings, you immediately understand why he's consider one of the greatest, the way he uses the brush, the colors. It is very difficult to all those colors that are kind of gradish, it is very difficult not to spoil a painting using these kind of colors. Well, 

Speaker 1 (52:01):
There also, and he 

Speaker 2 (52:02):
Knows what he's doing. 

Speaker 1 (52:04):
It's masterful because he's capturing the way 

Speaker 2 (52:08):
A moment, the 

Speaker 1 (52:08):
Sky is reflecting off of water, and you can still see sand through the water. So he's capturing that murky brown, but with that blue on top of it in that distinct way, that light reflects off of water. In that way, we recognize 

Speaker 2 (52:29):
Too, and on the skin of the, because there are a boy and a girl playing on the water. So as Russell said, we can see the sand, but we know it's water on the top. I don't know how we know it, but we know 

Speaker 1 (52:46):
It. We know it because we know how light looks like we're used to seeing. It's like when you see those bright reflections on the skin, when you see that bright white in that little spot that's wet. Because if it was dry skin, it wouldn't reflect quite so brightly. It's that weird way that water reflects light, and he's capturing it. And it's not just the way water reflects light, it's the way water reflects light in the middle of the day. This is high noon. You can just kind of tell it's right in the middle of the day because 

Speaker 2 (53:23):
Of the shades, 

Speaker 1 (53:24):
The shadows, just the way that particular color, I feel like you see that when you're at the beach. If it was like an overcast day, we wouldn't be getting that kind of blue in that light in the reflection. So he's really capturing that really particular moment. And the energy of the brush strokes. It's what we think about impressionism. We were just talking about this with the Goya of like, this is a hundred years later, but there it is again. But in his painting, it was in those little tiny moments in here. It's everywhere. It's everywhere. All at once. 

Speaker 2 (54:02):
So this is worth it to come and see. If you come and see just this, it's worth it. 

Speaker 1 (54:09):
It's a great painting. 

Speaker 2 (54:10):
And the other one, the girl, well, all of 

Speaker 1 (54:14):
Them, there's three. Yeah, there's several. 

Speaker 2 (54:15):
There's three. But the one there is one that is called After the bath. It's a young girl and she is dressing herself. But the transparency of the fabric is, I cannot even describe it. You have to look at it to understand how can this painter could have achieved this. It is a very, very difficult thing that he did. 

Speaker 1 (54:47):
Well, actually, when I talk about the painting in the Cincinnati Wing, the first Communion by Elizabeth nurse, 

Speaker 2 (54:55):
Yes. 

Speaker 1 (54:56):
It's a similar thing I like to talk about there that we have going on here where we know this person is holding a white cloth up to cover her up. 

Speaker 2 (55:07):
Well, this cloth is wet. 

Speaker 1 (55:09):
Right? But we know it's white. But look at all of the different colors in that white, 

Speaker 2 (55:15):
They're blues, they're yellows, they're greens, there are violets, and we know it's white. 

Speaker 1 (55:22):
Yes, it's a white fabric, but when you look at it, you can see how many, and that's what makes him great, right, is that he was able to see those colors in there and know how that's working, because he knows that our brain knows that it's white. But he's able to see past what he knows and to see what he sees, and to see that, oh, but actually the white is going to be reflecting some of the yellow of this other fabric that she's wearing, plus it's going to be reflecting the sky, which is reflecting off of this and reflecting off of that. So it's all of those reflections that actually are full of color, and that's what makes it feel alive. 

Speaker 2 (56:02):
Yes, definitely. There is movement. I feel the breeze. 

Speaker 1 (56:07):
Oh, totally. Yeah. 

Speaker 2 (56:08):
Yes, I smelled. I smell it too. I smell it is amazing. 

Speaker 1 (56:14):
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there are certain paintings where it's like, I think all of these, like we were saying, when you look at that water in the soroya, we started at it's impossible not to know how that water is moving. Right. You've seen it. You've felt that. It's like you can feel the temperature of the water, 

Speaker 2 (56:32):
Right, when you look at that. Exactly. Exactly. Yes. It's thoroughly worth it. We really recommend for you guys to come. 

Speaker 1 (56:42):
Totally. Well, thank you so much for walking me through this today. 

Speaker 2 (56:46):
No, thank you 

Speaker 1 (56:47):
For 

Speaker 2 (56:48):
Teaching me a lot. 

Speaker 1 (56:50):
No, no. You taught me more. Thank you for listening to Art Palace. We hope you'll be inspired to come visit the Cincinnati Art Museum and have conversations about the art yourself. General admission to the museum is always free, and we also offer free parking. Special exhibitions include the Levy, a photographer in the American South, women breaking boundaries and treasures of the Spanish world. If you want to take a tour of Treasures of the Spanish World, join us at 6:30 PM every Thursday night through January 16th for a docent led tour. Both the tour and admission to the exhibit are free on these evenings. If you are interested in taking a tour in Spanish, check the website for the monthly public tour that Marina spoke about, or call 6 3 9 2 9 7 5 to schedule a private Spanish tour for your group. For program reservations and more information, visit cincinnati art museum.org. You can follow the museum on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Snapchat, and even join our Art Palace Facebook group. Our theme song is FR Music Howl by Becca la, and as always, please rate and review us to help others find the show. I'm Russell, and this has been Art Palace, produced by the Cincinnati Art Museum.