Speaker 1 (00:00): Coming up on Art Palace, Speaker 2 (00:02): I think women are monumental. I think all of us are monumental. If we have a sense of achievement or a sense of doing something for somebody, even small things count and nobody should be discounted. Speaker 1 (00:29): Welcome to Art Palace, produced by Cincinnati Art Museum. This is your host, Russell iig. Here at the Art Palace, we meet cool people and then talk to them about art. Today's cool person is Artist Anila Kaga. This episode is a live recording from September 21st of ALA's conversation on stage with Ainsley m Cameron, curator of South Asian Art, Islamic Art and antiquities. Speaker 3 (01:08): Hi, good evening. I have the absolute pleasure today to introduce Aila. She's a wonderful and gracious artist and that we are honored here to award her with the Chile prize. Aila started her artistic practice at the renowned National College of Arts in Lahore, Pakistan. She later moved to the US to complete her M F A in fiber arts at the University of North Texas, and in 2008 she moved to Indianapolis where she's currently the associate professor of drawing at the Heron School of Art and Design. You'll see from some of the images going on in the background here. A Eli is a mixed media artist. She works across disciplines to explore global politics and cultural norms. Her works vary very widely in scale from small works on paper to large scale installations like the one we have upstairs. And I do hope everyone had a chance to see it. Speaker 3 (02:01): By incorporating her training in fiber arts in innovative ways, Aila investigates the ideas of traditional craft and the domestic sphere to challenge in entrenched gender stereotypes. She also explores cultural multiplicity and transnational migration through her awe-inspiring installations that transform even the grandest of gallery settings. She has exhibited in over 20 solo shows and 50 group shows, and her work is in many public and private collections, including the Peabody Ethics Museum in Salem, Massachusetts, the Rinna Museum of Art in New Delhi, India, and now here at the Cincinnati Art Museum. So I would like to welcome Manila to the stage for this conversation. So I gather you would like to start us off. Speaker 2 (03:04): Yes. If that's okay. Please do. I'm so happy to be here. Thank you all for coming. I also would like to thank some people who have been very generous and wonderful to me and to my career and just makes me full of gratitude because I'm alive. I'm an artist and I'm able to earn a living from my art. That's a big deal. Trust me first, thank you Cameron Kitchen for being such a forward-thinking director of a museum. I'm really impressed and thank you for including my work in your collection. Ainsley, of course, wonderful to have been able to communicate and work with you on the acquisition and afterwards, whatever came after it was wonderful. Thank you. I hope that I can call you a friend for the rest of my life. I would love that, Cynthia. I dunno where she is, but she was the one who, very stylish lady, she came to my studio and did the first studio visit and I was so impressed. Thank you for coming and being generous and being open to looking at the work and taking good hidings back. Speaker 2 (04:48): Alice Bimo Foundation or Endowment for Asian art. Thank you for acquiring my work because that means so much to me because of her and her endowment. I'm part of a museum now. That's my legacy. It's wonderful. And then Marjorie Sheley, wonderful to be named the second fellow, I guess I would call it. I'm so happy to be able to take her legacy forward and it means so much to me, all my friends who have come all the way from Indianapolis, Shannon, Paula, Kat. Thank you. It means a lot to me. And then last but not least, my husband, Steve, Rachel, I dunno where he is, but without him I don't think my sculptures would be what they are. His skills, his ability, his critical thinking took my vision and made it into something that's worthwhile and being collected. So thank you all. It means a lot. Much Speaker 3 (06:09): Appreciated. Speaker 2 (06:10): Thank you. Speaker 3 (06:13): Great. Okay, so I thought what we would do for the next few minutes is I've got some questions I was going to ask you, but also just we can see what the conversation takes us. I do want to leave some time for questions from our audience because I know there's a lot of people who want to ask some questions as well. I think we're lucky that we've got this wonderful slide show in the background that's already been playing. So I think everyone's had a chance to see some of your works go by. And what I loved about the slideshow as it came together is that it shows your works from about 2004 to now, and it shows this really wonderful progression through your works. And what I loved thinking about you and your training and really sort of this training in fiber arts and starting there, starting with embroidery, starting to think about traditional craft and gender and domestication and how to sort of bring that forward in your art to where we are now with these laser cut works. And I mean we could talk about this probably for days and weeks, but how did we get from there to here? What is this progression? How did it come about? Where did it germinate and how was it new for you? Speaker 2 (07:22): It's a really long question. Its, I apologize, I'll try to do it justice. But I think the interesting thing of my journey I often think is what grounds it. It's the social issues that I feel so involved with. And for me as a woman growing up in Pakistan, it was often feeling like a second to the male often. And so for me to be able to bring a womanly or a feminist point of view into my work kind of makes it worthwhile for me. I think the journey started from being a woman who was underrepresented to becoming a woman who is represented, but also a woman who's from South Asia who's an immigrant, who has made a life here, who's educating young people here so that we can broaden the environment of understanding tolerance justice. So I feel very grateful that I'm given the opportunity to do all this, but it's also because I started from a place where I often felt underrepresented, but somehow I rested it back and was able to say, okay, this is my life. I'm going to make it better. I'm going to make it better for other people too. And I think that's what drives me often, Speaker 2 (09:07): Which is why I continue to teach even though I'm really, sometimes I feel like I can't handle everything now. So maybe that answers the question. I hope it does, but I think it's the feeling of being not important in the beginning and how you deal with that as a woman, as a female in a part of the world that often discounts my ability or my mind or my whatever I give to people around me or my community, it's often limited to childbearing or being a mom, which is not saying that it's less, but it's not the only thing I was or I am. Speaker 3 (10:02): So you sort of see your own artistic practice and as a way to transcend the barriers that have been imposed upon you through gender in Pakistan. Okay. Speaker 2 (10:12): Yeah. Speaker 3 (10:12): Okay. That's really true. Speaker 2 (10:13): But I think that gender is not limited to Pakistan. I often think that gender is very worldwide and there are issues within the American culture, within the European culture where women are kind of given a glass ceiling and made to stay within that. We've recently heard and read articles about the technology centers in California. Speaker 3 (10:40): Yeah, no, definitely. Speaker 2 (10:41): So it's sort of like it's different for different environments, but it is always there. Speaker 3 (10:49): I, it's even more profound if we are honoring six women in this talk and tonight. So Speaker 2 (10:54): That made me very hard Speaker 3 (10:55): To be part Speaker 2 (10:56): Of that. Speaker 3 (10:57): Definitely. I like that. So this work that we have on display upstairs, and again I do hope everyone saw it's open to October 15th, so do come back as well. It's a very personal reflection in a lot of ways, a lot of what we've spoken about in the past and a lot of what you've written about in your artist statement, it talks about a reflection of your own personal love loss and games in your life. But it's sort of along with that, and you've touched on that a little bit already. It explores loss and alienation on a worldwide scale from displaced people thinking about transnational migration, thinking about people leaving family behind in order to start lives new. Can we talk about how those two meanings coexist for you in your artwork? How it's a very sort of personal reflection of your own life, but that the magnitude of this political and social ideals that you feel so strongly about and how you bring those as well. How do those both sort of rest in your pieces? Speaker 2 (12:01): Well, I think if you talk about making people understand what you're trying to say, often for me the best thing is to show a contrast of how you may have felt bad, but then how you conquered that feeling. Or I was a woman in Pakistan who was considered to be lesser than the male counterpart, but then I overcame that. So that contrast I think in my opinion, is often the best way to show that. And when we talk about artworks that are, I often think what are some of the things that make things memorable? It's when the personal that has happened to you can be connected to people on a larger, wider scale. So personal, becoming global. And I think the third thing I would say is that when you talk about being discounted, that can be translated to political situations all around the world. So for example, the way refugees are discounted, unless we are connected to them in some way or fashion, we are going to just shut the TV off and say, okay, it's happened in Mexico, it's happened. And so maybe it's not so connected to me. So you are able to shut it off and go on with your life, Speaker 2 (13:41): But if you're connected to somebody and that that person was discounted, then you are going to do whatever it takes to get money there to get help there. And I think that is the point of the way we function as humanity. We help where we can, but often we help the people that are connected to us. And I feel that that feeling of being discounted can be so intrinsic to so many people's lives. And especially as a woman like me who came from a place where if I hadn't fought for education, I may have been still there, may not have had a good life, may not have had many choices. And I often think about that feeling of being discounted that drives me and that feeling, when you can connect that to feminism intersection feminism, then you can understand how people in Bangladesh may feel or how in North Korea may feel women especially who have to bring families together and continue to make things work for them. And I think that that's maybe is what drives my practice more than anything else. That feeling of wanting to talk about that sense of not being important enough. Speaker 2 (15:20): Sometimes in a class that I teach, I have maybe 20 students and if I don't make each person feel important, they may start feeling left out. So imagine humanity wise, I mean we are so many billions of people on this earth now and we are continuing to feel discounted. 50% of the population often feels discounted. So how do we make them feel like they are part of the decision making? And I think that's what drives my practice. And so I often think, how can I bring that feeling into the work? Speaker 3 (15:59): So it's that sort of sense of connection that you can give through each piece that you can almost envision as a domino effect of connection to one to the other, to make a sort of wider effect. I think that's neat. Speaker 2 (16:13): But then here's another problem. See with artists or being an artist, we are not saving lives. Speaker 3 (16:21): I Speaker 2 (16:21): Mean, I'm not a doctor, I'm not taking care of somebody's surgery, I'm not Speaker 3 (16:27): Giving Speaker 2 (16:27): Medication or I'm not being Speaker 3 (16:29): Loyal. I am a doctor and I still can't do any of that stuff. Right. That's the most useless kind. Speaker 2 (16:35): Yeah, that must be hard on you. It's Speaker 3 (16:38): Hard when you're on an airplane and that is there a doctor on board, we have a problem. I'm like, do you want to talk about, I don't know, landscape versus portrait? I don't know. No, not me. Anyway, let's go. Speaker 2 (16:54): I think it's just hard being that place or Speaker 3 (16:58): No, that Speaker 2 (16:59): Person. Speaker 3 (16:59): Yeah, definitely. I want to talk about something that you and I talked about recently I thought was really, really interesting. We were talking about the object versus the experience and it sort of is part of this as well. I think that when people look at your works in the gallery, they're making this connection because they're having an emotional connection to what they're seeing. And so there's this idea of the sculptural installation that you create out of steel now and the gallery experience that you also create and that you want people to engage with. And I want to talk about how the object can inform the experience and vice versa. How do you see them relating and how does it change per gallery space? I've seen this work in a few different spaces now and I feel like it's always different. And we were talking about how you've made it in different colors recently and how it's always different. So how do you see yourself as manipulating that experience? Do those subtle changes of space and color or are you sort of releasing control of the way people experiencing it and having them have their reaction? Speaker 2 (18:12): That's a really interesting thing to think about because I often think that if I were a magician I would be doing the gimmicking stuff, but that's not where my heart is. I think very thoughtfully about how I want the shadows to reflect on people. The issue was how I make the person who's walking through the space as part of the installation or part of the object. There are so many layers to the sculptures themselves. They're not just about a person walking through. It's about this whole idea of authenticity. Where I'm coming from, I'm a Pakistani American woman living in the United States, but a lot of my influences come from my childhood and my adolescence and my early adulthood and then growing up in an Islamic environment and being an atheist. Now those things kind of how do they connect and form what I'm trying to say. And I often think the idea of what it means to be a post-colonial person where I am authentic in Pakistan, but I may not be authentic here. So the shadows play a role that may not be just what is obvious. Yes, people connect to them on an emotional level because it's beautiful, it's meditative, it's experiential, so you kind of become part of the environment. But it's also about other things. It's about categorization, about what it means to be a feminist. It's a feminine space. Speaker 2 (20:04): Am I allowing you to be in here? I mean, I don't really have any kind of way to say this more authentically than saying it like this that I want to welcome everybody because to me being a brown person from another part of the world where I was often discounted but also discounted in this country when I came here through grad school, through work, through other places, I want to make sure that people understand that it's not just about beautiful environment, it's about you and I and how we connect. It's about social connections and how we can make people feel and be in somebody else's shoes, for example. So I think also I sometimes think that beautiful environments can be a problem with contemporary art because beauty is tricky, considered a bad word or sometimes it's tricky. But that shows my origins because in Pakistan I was supposed to be an ornamental human being. I was supposed to add beauty and breeding and births to the mix. But other than that, I had no say in my own life. And so when I talk about beauty, it's more intrinsic to that. And I've totally forgotten your question, Speaker 3 (21:43): So it doesn't matter. Speaker 2 (21:48): So I dunno what to say now, how to make a point. Speaker 3 (21:53): I mean that the concept of beauty is really interesting, the concept of beauty within contemporary art, but then also just within the museum experience and how people are having these emotional reactions. And that's really tough to do. I mean as a curator I think about that often of how to make connections between visitors and the artwork that we display and representing South Asian collections, Islamic collections, it's often very difficult because you have these a different set of barriers between the visitors and the art. You have the barriers of where people here might not necessarily know the intricacies of these cultures and feel that they're not allowed to appreciate something on that same level. They're not. They're like, perhaps it's a religious object in our South Asian galleries and they think, well, I'm not part of this culture, therefore I can't appreciate it to its fullest potential, therefore I won't even engage with it. Speaker 3 (22:45): And I'm trying to break down those barriers. And I think beauty is a wonderful way to do that. The aesthetics of the objects to really sort of guide people in seeing beauty in the different objects from different cultures, but also to create emotional connections with things. And I think if you can create that in a gallery, I think it's this wonderful, I think it's a win. I think any sort of true connection that you can have with a piece of artwork in the 21st century when we're all looking at our smartphones or we're all doing different things, I mean it's fabulous. But then to marry the 21st century into your artwork as well. I want to talk about for a second because Instagram and you are this match made in heaven. I mean people love your work, they love to share it. This is how people are experiencing the world. Speaker 3 (23:40): They are taking pictures of themselves or your artwork and saying that they were there and they're using this wonderful language and vocabulary. I recently went through our Instagram feed and was just sort of reading some of the messages that people were writing and it was beautiful and joyful, stunning, astounding. People said almost overwhelming, jaw dropping, breathtaking. It was really, I dunno, really welcoming and open the space that you're trying to create. I felt that people were engaging with, the favorite comment that I noticed was someone wrote just, this is the answer. I don't know what the question is, but somebody was just so moved by the piece post. This is the answer. But what does that repetition of your artwork on social media mean to you or affect you? Obviously it's publicity. Yes, but I mean it's more than that because I don't know, it's getting your work out there in this very different way because it's still, it's passing on the domino connection in some weird way. Do you see it that way or how do you Speaker 2 (24:58): See it? I do and I am very grateful about that because I mean who wouldn't want as an artist their work to be continuously shown like that? But I worry a little bit because when I was talking about the authenticity of it, then the experience becomes limited to online Speaker 3 (25:21): Formats. Maybe Speaker 2 (25:22): People may not go and experience it personally, but we live in the 21st century and now we have this wonderful internet as, I can't remember who said the internet, but I think we as the future, we are going to see the world very differently. And I wish I were born now because I'd be so up with it, I'd be so up, but I'm still trying to understand how to use Instagram and use Twitter and all these things. But I think that this is an amazing phenomenon that's becoming almost rabid, I think because it's like I wonder how many people just stay at home and just do that instead of going out and being with friends or talking or calling people. And I'm at fault for that too because I'm so busy in the studio or I'm teaching that I often just revert to Facebook or Twitter or Instagram to see what my friends are doing. Speaker 3 (26:33): Oh yeah, Speaker 2 (26:33): Definitely. And instead of calling them and saying, Hey, let's go and have a drink or something, we are mostly using this wonderful tool that we have. Speaker 3 (26:43): But Speaker 2 (26:43): I would hope that people would understand that it's a tool, it's an extension of what we can do, but maybe the experience has to be personally done. Speaker 3 (26:55): I think people are, I think there's studies that are coming out about that, that people are getting off their couches, putting down their phones and having that experience. And you see it even in the Instagram feed for this work that people are commenting, oh my God, I have to go and see that as well. And there is this sort of, I mean what I worry about is I don't want it to be sort of a check the box thing of I have to see that in my lifetime visiting the Mona Lisa or something and taking your picture, but that people are still realizing that there is an experience to be had and they're doing that. So I think we're good. Speaker 3 (27:31): I don't think I asked you any of the questions that were actually on my paper, so let me see if I can find some more. I was really interested in what you said about it being a feminine space and why is it that? Is it because you're a female artist creating it? Is it because of the nature of the shape and shadows and the effect of the ornamentation as it comes through that this piece is, the majority of it is floral ornamentation. What is it, what are the different aspects that bring it together to create a feminist or feminine space that you then interpret as feminist? Speaker 2 (28:16): Well, I think that first, I think it connects to this whole idea of the fragility of life and shadows are very connected to that. Often when we are alive and then we die, we are kind of shadows in people's memories. Sometimes as you get older you realize that you remember less and less and some things become very potent to you, but other things are lost. I think the ephemerality is what entices me. And if you notice right from the beginning when I started making work in this country, I was very drawn to the idea of shadows and what it means. So it's sort of like it's not just a feminine space, it's also the fact that we are so delicate. The world is so delicate, the systems that we live in within, they're all so delicate. But then we are able to kind of create this environment where we feel so strong, we are able to conquer nature Speaker 3 (29:31): And Speaker 2 (29:32): Build these awesome buildings and do these amazing things. And then we realized, but if the hurricane came and you die, that's it. So I often think that the shadows kind of represent that for me symbolically. And I'm so interested in this idea of how we can have a real person who's casting a shadow and then the shadow itself that is alive and kicking and really moving with you, but it's still not there Speaker 3 (30:07): Or Speaker 2 (30:07): Is there. And that idea of being there and not being there is also what you were asking me about earlier about the loss. It's loss of ideas, it's loss of lives, it's loss of so many different things that are connected to us as humans. But then we go out and we do things that may not be so nice. For example, denying climate change for example. To me, big Speaker 3 (30:38): Deal Speaker 2 (30:38): That seems so limited in our thinking. I mean, how can we not think beyond ourselves and think about the entire earth? And so Speaker 3 (30:49): Shadows Speaker 2 (30:49): For me mean something more deeper, more elemental that kind of connect all of these ideas together Speaker 3 (31:00): And Speaker 2 (31:00): Bring them together. And so it's sort of talking about life really. Speaker 3 (31:03): Yeah, it's so interesting that you use steel as well then to create the structure, this almost like indestructible material and then they ephemerality of the shadows. I think that's a really nice juxtaposition, but it doesn't feel like juxtaposition. It doesn't feel aggressive in any way. Do you know what I mean? Even though it's a very imposing piece when you go into the gallery, I don't get that sense from it and I haven't experienced that from other people from stalking their Instagram at least. But Speaker 2 (31:36): That was one of the reasons when the initial, the first piece was built, it was made out of wood and the idea was to have it. I mean, wood represents trees and there are redwood forests in California that have been there for 500 years. So that was the initial kind of germination of the idea of why not use this material. Speaker 3 (32:03): But Speaker 2 (32:03): It was also because I was lucky enough to receive a grant from Indiana University called me New Frontiers and it needed to have a component that allowed me to use technology as well. And so being able to marry the two ideas together and create this work was really important because I wanted it to feel imposing because I wanted to make it black, but I wanted it to levitate so that it felt light, but still so heavy. And all of those things kind of made it imposing, like you said, but it also allowed for it to be this thing that stayed in people's minds because it was light, but heavy enveloping yet an object. And so many things were happening at the same time. And I think that's the magic of real, the great art that we see within our times and also old art that we've seen that educates us and puts us in context. And it's just so exciting to be part of this idea of using new technology and being able to use materials that represent durability and longevity. I mean, I'd be dead and gone and this piece is still going to be here. So maybe it'll say something to the future generations Speaker 2 (33:42): That I was trying to say now. And maybe like Speaker 3 (33:45): Leonardo Speaker 2 (33:46): Da Vinci, I may still be alive then or maybe forgotten. Speaker 3 (33:50): You Speaker 2 (33:50): Never know. I think it's a flip. Women artists sometimes get Speaker 3 (33:58): Forgotten. I'm getting my moment from Russell here. Let's open it up to the audience if there's any questions anyone has. Speaker 2 (34:05): But before I can I say one more thing? When you were talking about Instagram, Speaker 3 (34:11): I Speaker 2 (34:11): Think I have a very special person over here. His name is Progel dta. He's the icon gallery's amazing c e o or director. And he's taken me everywhere. He's put me in a Dubai Abu Dhabi. He's sensitively taken care of my work and shown me worldwide. I mean, I wouldn't have been on Instagram without projo. Speaker 3 (34:44): Yeah, the first time I saw the piece was at Pro Jo's Gallery. In fact, that's where I fell in love with it. Speaker 2 (34:49): And so Icon Gallery has done me proud. I'm so grateful that I'm part of his gallery. Stables. Stables is a weird word though. But thank you deconstruct Speaker 3 (35:01): That next time. Speaker 2 (35:02): And I wouldn't be on Instagram or Twitter or Facebook if it wasn't for him. Thank you. Where is he? Speaker 3 (35:15): Great. So we do have a few minutes for questions from our audience. Russell has a very ingenious system that he does. He's going to have a mic. He's going to come around from one side to the other. So if people on this side have any questions, I see one more in the center that of all, I would like Speaker 4 (35:33): To thank you for this amazing peace that you have created, at least for me because so many times I have come to see this and the spirituality that maybe it's a cliche word, but it brings me close to my higher self. It is beautiful. Absolutely beautiful. So I want to thank you Ms, and I hope you will continue doing this. But I have a question for you. When you first walk into this stunning room with all those reflections and this beautiful piece in the middle, the light in the middle of the cube that you have created, it comes across so bright that there for a second, you almost like the light hits you. Now I have been sitting and thinking, is that the light of God or whatever you want to interpret it. But the same token, I'm just questioning. I mean I am far smaller than that to question you, but I like to know, couldn't there be a form of light there that it wouldn't hit you? But nevertheless, thank you so much. Honestly, I think you are a winner. God bless you. Thank you. Speaker 2 (37:25): If you'd like me to answer that question about the light, I think the shadows wouldn't form as brilliantly as the do if the light wasn't that strong. But it's also about the unity of light. When we talk about religions worldwide, there's often this single God that we are all talking about, but the single God doesn't connect with the other God. And so to me as a person who I think earth, maybe my religion or humanity may be my religion. So for me to kind of think about the idea of how can we all be united and make our lives better, but I mean it's an idea. So like I said, I'm not really saving lives, but I'm trying to make people think a little outside of the box so to speak. And so the light is very necessary for that. Speaker 5 (38:44): We'll get you down here. Go back. Hi Aila. I agree with Zzi. Your work is just beautiful. But I had a question about you left Pakistan feeling like a second class citizen. Is your family accepting of the strides you have made for women? And how did they feel about you not believing in Islam anymore? Speaker 2 (39:15): I don't know if they know that. I wouldn't want to be the person who tells other people not to believe it's there. It's their life. They have to decide for me. I think they're very proud of me. My mother earlier this year passed away, but she was very proud of me and my siblings. They know what I do. I don't know if they completely understand because they've never visited the United States and now they may not be able to with the current scenario, but they're very happy and proud and I have been able to help them quite a bit. So that really makes a difference to me as well. To tell you, honestly, my immediate family was pretty much very, my sister's work or at least one of them. And then one sister took care of my mom all her life. So it's like everybody chips in and does what they can. I don't know what their real feelings are about it because we haven't really talked about it. Speaker 5 (40:34): Okay, thank you. Speaker 6 (40:36): What does the title all the flowers are Speaker 5 (40:38): For me mean to you Speaker 2 (40:41): Often? I used to think that to be successful as a woman was very difficult. Living in Pakistan my earlier life, I started working when I was very young. And so often I felt like life was passing me by and I wasn't able to achieve what I wanted to. And also the fact that when my father passed away very early, when I was very young, my mother's family came over, especially her brothers who suggested to get us married off as young women. I was, I think 14 years old, maybe 15. And so for me the title means all the flowers are for means. I have the option to make choices. I can and will be educated. I will decide how I live and how I will conduct my life. So that's what that title means. It means all the flowers are for me. I can decide, Speaker 7 (42:05): Of course. I think your work is magnificent and amazing. And one of the first things that struck me about it was how much space it takes up. And so in the context of feminism, I was just wondering what inspired you or what gave you the courage to take up that much space? Speaker 2 (42:23): If you think about it, women, like when we were, Cameron was introducing the five women that he was talking about. They take up a lot of space. How come we always give them a little space? So I wanted to go big. I wanted to make something monumental. My initial idea was actually to make something that was overhead but was 16 feet square above my head. That didn't happen because my funding kind of was limited. And so I only, so I had to scale it down. But then I thought about the idea of even if I scale down the actual object, how can I project it so that it becomes monumental? And so I think women are monumental. I think all of us are monumental if we have a sense of achievement or a sense of doing something for somebody, even small things count and nobody should be discounted. So the sculptures are really big because of that reason. I think women are monumental. And so Speaker 3 (43:40): I think that's all the time we have, unfortunately. So we're going to end on that kind of awesome note. And all of us monumental women are going to Speaker 2 (43:51): Be the stage. Amazons, Speaker 3 (43:54): Thank you so much for coming everyone. Speaker 1 (44:07): Thank you for listening to Art Palace. We hope you'll be inspired to come visit the Cincinnati Art Museum and have conversations about the art yourself. General admission to the museum is always free, and we also offer free parking. Special exhibitions on view right now are on England kinship, William Ridge, more sweetly Play The Dance A Kaga. All the flowers are for me. An opening on October 13th is Iris Vaughan Urin transforming fashion. Join us on Thursday, October 5th for a screening of Under The Starry Sky or deis, hosted by curator Ainsley m Cameron. And with an introduction by Tere Miran George, professor of French and Women's Gender and sexuality studies at the University of Cincinnati and post film discussion with Michael Gott, director of Programming at the Center for Film and Media Studies at uc. For program reservations and more information, visit cincinnati art museum.org. You can follow us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and Snapchat. We also have a new Facebook group for Art Palace, so please join it. Our theme song is, oh, fron Music How? By Balal. And as always, please rate review us and subscribe on iTunes. I'm Russell Iig, and this has been Art Palace produced by the Cincinnati Art Museum.