Speaker 1 (00:00): Coming up on Art Palace, Speaker 2 (00:03): It's all on a human scale so that it highlights how dangerous this could be. Speaker 1 (00:09): This is a high stake situation here. Welcome to Art Palace, produced by Cincinnati Art Museum. This is your host Russell iig. Here at the Art Palace, we meet cool people and then talk to them about art. Today's cool person is Illustrator, Aaron Barker. Yeah. Today I told, I was just down with the summer campers and I said, oh, I have to go leave to record a podcast. And the kids were, one of the kids was like, what's that? What? Speaker 2 (01:03): It's so sad. I was like, it's like modern radio. Speaker 1 (01:11): I was like, well, obviously I'm not doing it for you. Speaker 2 (01:16): You don't get to listen Speaker 1 (01:17): Kid. Geez. It'll make me feel bad. Bad privileges Speaker 2 (01:21): Have been revoked. Speaker 1 (01:23): Well, I feel like that's a response I expect all the time to get when talking with an older person. But you just feel like kids. Speaker 2 (01:29): How old was this kid? Nine or 10. Wow. Speaker 1 (01:34): Yeah. Speaker 2 (01:35): I dunno. Speaker 1 (01:35): I don't know. I guess it's just clearly not at all. I mean, when I was nine or 10, if somebody was like, Hey, do you want to listen to two people blabber on and on about nothing for Speaker 2 (01:46): An hour? No. Speaker 1 (01:47): I would just be like, no, thank you. It Speaker 2 (01:49): Will pass. Speaker 1 (01:50): No, that does not sound fun at all. I mean, this is the idea of talk radio being interesting to me at that Speaker 2 (01:57): Age is Speaker 1 (01:57): Probably not something I was Speaker 2 (01:59): Zero chance of that. Right. Speaker 1 (02:01): So yeah, I guess it makes sense, but it was a little disheartening that he literally had no idea what I was talking about, what Speaker 2 (02:07): It even was. That's hilarious. But Speaker 1 (02:08): The word meant nothing to it. Now it's one kid. Maybe the rest of them are all very big fans. Speaker 2 (02:14): Savvy podcast aficionados. Yeah, but I doubt it. Probably not. Probably not. They actually are huge fans of your podcast. Speaker 1 (02:23): Oh, they most definitely are not. They got to be, I offer them nothing. I'll just make it full of Fortnite tips and then I'll have them all on my side. They'll be, they'll get it. Yeah. We'll just retitle this episode like Fortnite Secret Tips and Tricks Explained with Aaron Barker, and then it's like, Speaker 2 (02:42): Just kidding. We're Speaker 1 (02:43): Talking about art. We're going to talk about drawings. Speaker 2 (02:45): Yeah. Illustration. Speaker 1 (02:48): Where's the Fortnite tip? Speaker 2 (02:50): Where are my video games? Speaker 1 (02:54): I could probably, I mean, I couldn't tell you how to win Fortnite, but I could tell you more about it than I should be able Speaker 2 (03:01): To. Speaker 1 (03:02): I feel like every once in a while the kids will be talking about something and they'll be like a little wait. You know Speaker 2 (03:09): About that? Speaker 1 (03:09): About Pokemon? Yeah, I know about Pokemon Dude. It's cool. Speaker 2 (03:14): That's one of my favorite things. I work at a kid's bookstore. One of my favorite things is when the kid comes in and they think, I don't know what they're talking about, and then I give them a little insider scoop and they're like, what? I see you in a completely different light now. I thought you weren't cool, but now you are. Speaker 1 (03:33): Yeah, yeah. Speaker 2 (03:34): I'm like, yeah, Speaker 1 (03:35): Yeah. I've gotten that look from the kids before. Oh wait, how do you know about this? What? Speaker 2 (03:42): You can show me exactly where the Minecraft books are. Yes, I can. Speaker 1 (03:49): So you work at the Blue Manatee? Speaker 2 (03:51): I do, yeah. It's a magical wonderland. Yeah. We have all kids books. We have a very tiny adult book section, but Speaker 1 (04:01): Yeah, I had no idea that they offered that even. Speaker 2 (04:04): Yeah, it's like one tiny shelf, but it's owned by a pediatrician, so our focus is really early childhood development. So toddlers is our main demographic, but I do story time on Tuesdays and it is a blast and a half. Speaker 1 (04:24): Good. We do story time on Wednesday, so we're not competing. Oh, Speaker 2 (04:26): Good. Good, good. Well, we also do story time on Wednesdays. It's just not my story time. Someone else is doing story time on Wednesdays, but let's be real. Mine's the bust. Oh yeah. Speaker 1 (04:36): I'm guessing you guys probably do story time many days Speaker 2 (04:39): Every day. Every day. We don't do it on Mondays and we don't do it on Sundays. Mondays we have a little art class, so this morning we had a fun little painting class and read a story and it was great. Nice, nice. Speaker 1 (04:54): Well that's cool. So were you already deep into illustration and doing children's books before you started working there or was that sort of influencing you in some way or? Speaker 2 (05:05): I have always been a huge fan of children's literature way past when it was appropriate to kids' books. I've just always liked them, partially because I've always loved art and illustration, have always felt like an artist. I never questioned what I was going to do. I just knew that I was going to do art. So then when I started working there, it was like all my dreams came true. But being there and seeing what kids were actually reading and what books were being picked up and what was selling, what parents were interested in versus what the kids might be interested in, and I've found this very interesting combination of the best books are that parents and the kids are interested in because if the kid is just into it, then the parent might buy it for their child, but then they're not going to want to read it over and over again, and if the parent is only interested in it, then the kid isn't going to want to read it. So those ones that kind of fall in between where both of those intersect, like John Klassen books, this Is Not My Hat, and that sort of hat series that he has done. I don't know if you're familiar with his work. So Hilarious. Says so much with so little. Speaker 2 (06:34): It's like this really simple style, but he can pack so much emotion into one little thing that's just incredible. Those books I've found that parents like reading those and kids find them hilarious. They'll Elephant and Piggy Books by Mo Willems are huge. Parents will read those over and over again. They're legitimately funny. They're very funny and kids just die over them. But it's been really, really cool to see what the ins and outs are of the children's book industry because I've only just kind of been a fan and then wanted to do it from an illustration standpoint for years and years. But now that I'm actually working in a bookstore and then also with the publishing company that Blue Maner owns Blue Mane Press, that's also been an incredible opportunity just to see how the publishing world works. Speaker 1 (07:40): What do you think parents are looking for and what do you think kids are looking for and what is that way that those books kind of intersect, I guess? And I guess it's not always the same, but I guess what are some examples maybe you've noticed? Speaker 2 (07:53): Yeah. Well, I guess I can say the books that parents are into that kids aren't into are the ones that are talking about these bigger philosophical things. Speaker 1 (08:08): They're are the concepts maybe just too abstract or something? Speaker 2 (08:12): I think they're a little too abstract and oftentimes the illustration styles that go with those books are maybe not as appealing to kids. It's such a nebulous thing. It's hard to know exactly why is a kid into this? Why is the kid so engrossed in the pictures of this? It also depends on the kid sometimes. Sometimes they'll be into this really detailed, well-developed illustration style and then the kid next to that kid is into the really, Speaker 1 (08:52): That Speaker 2 (08:52): Sound effect really encompassed a whole lot. But yeah, it tends to be more the ones that the kids are into the parents are not into would tend to be more like, oh, fart jokes or the kid humor. Maybe the parent will be like, oh, well that's dumb. It's not a smart humor. So the best ones that they both tend to be funny books that maybe there are Easter eggs for the parents and the jokes that maybe we'll be going over the kids' head at this point, but then in a few years they'll be getting it. Speaker 1 (09:41): But they still probably work on some kind of fundamental story level that even if you don't understand maybe the big version of the big implications of this, it still works just as a story. Speaker 2 (09:56): Yeah, absolutely. The kids love stories. Speaker 1 (10:00): I was just thinking about something slightly controversial, but The Giving Tree or something like that Speaker 2 (10:08): Has Speaker 1 (10:08): A lot of really heavy implications. Speaker 2 (10:12): Oh my goodness. Speaker 1 (10:12): For an adult, but maybe for a kid just kind of was like, oh, that's a story. That was nice. It still functions on this very straightforward narrative Speaker 2 (10:23): Level. Yes, it does. Speaker 1 (10:24): But Speaker 2 (10:25): Absolutely as an adult, I'm reading The Giving Tree and I'm like, this is such an unhealthy relationship. Speaker 1 (10:31): It's so dark between the Speaker 2 (10:33): Child and the tree. This is killing the tree and oh my gosh, I'm Speaker 1 (10:40): Thinking about, it's tragic. I mean, it's so Speaker 2 (10:42): Sad, Speaker 1 (10:43): Tragic, but I mean that's so weird about that book is that I don't think, it also doesn't give you any easy answers of what you're supposed to take away from it necessarily. It doesn't set up that, and that's probably why some people really dislike it is because it doesn't explicitly say this is messed up and it, it just lets it be that thing. And I mean, I think it's kind of more powerful because of it. Speaker 2 (11:09): Absolutely. Speaker 1 (11:10): I mean, again, I like things that are sort of uncomfortable and put you in weird positions sometimes. Speaker 2 (11:16): There are a lot of books now that are like, okay, well, we have a clear moral and this is the lesson at the end of the story, and here we're going to tie it up with the bow. There are a lot of books out there right now like that, and I think we don't have enough of those unanswered questions. There's a book right now actually, it's illustrated by the Fan Brothers and it's called the Antler Ship. It's one of those rare ones that, well, the illustrations are gorgeous and you just want to stare at it. It's so good. Their illustrations are nuts. But the story is about this fox who wants to find these answers. And so he goes on this whole journey, gets on the ship and finds some friends and does his thing and never finds the answers that he's looking for. But it's almost the journey was the answer kind of Speaker 1 (12:12): That's Speaker 2 (12:12): Part of what he's learning is that you don't often find the answers that you're looking for in life, but he gains these friends over the course of this time and he's found this family when they get to his destination that he thought he was going to find all this stuff and he doesn't. That's okay. And it's not like, it doesn't even wrap it up in a nice little bow, and that's kind of how it ends and it's really beautiful. Speaker 1 (12:43): Is there any, I don't know, direct examples where you've taken something you've learned from one of those inspirations and applied it really directly in your own work? Speaker 2 (12:59): Yeah. Tommy Depa is another illustrator that's been really influential on my work stylistically, his work is just, it's so good. So I can definitely see his influence stylistically on my work today. The way that he simplifies the figure, he uses a lot of repetition and pattern in the way he draws backgrounds and buildings that I've taken in a lot of my illustration. The way there's, he uses a lot of this kind of scalloped pattern to do a rooftop or something like that, and I use that a lot in not just if I were drawing a rooftop, doing a terracotta rooftop, Speaker 1 (13:56): But Speaker 2 (13:57): I find myself doing that pattern in a lot of just doodling my sketchbook that I have here. We've got a whole big thing that I find that a lot of the patterns that are in there I can find in his work, which is interesting. But Speaker 1 (14:15): Yeah, when you said that, I'm like, yeah, I know what pattern you mean. I mean, I know what I'm Speaker 2 (14:18): Talking about Speaker 1 (14:18): Talking about. And I remember kind picking up on that when I was a kid too, and I feel like it totally became my go-to roof pattern Speaker 2 (14:27): Really Speaker 1 (14:27): Quickly. Yeah, it's a good Speaker 2 (14:28): One. Speaker 1 (14:28): And Speaker 2 (14:28): You can also see it in older stuff like Japanese Speaker 1 (14:33): Printmaking, Speaker 2 (14:34): And I recently did a mural, which is, well, I designed a mural. It's currently being painted right now. It's going to go in Silverton on the side of women writing for a change. Speaker 1 (14:49): Okay. Speaker 2 (14:50): Do you know? Yeah. And there's a, some of those patterns that I snuck in to the design, I'm really, really happy with that one. I'm excited to see it. Speaker 1 (15:06): What's that one? What's the mural? What's it about Speaker 2 (15:11): Lady Power and not specifically, but it is, I mean, because it's going to be going on Speaker 1 (15:17): The Speaker 2 (15:17): Side of women writing for a change. They really wanted a lot of the things that women writing for a change stand for in inclusivity and power to the feminine spirit and acceptance and creative expression. I have a lot of, there are three women in the piece and then there's just a bunch of foliage and stuff that's kind of surrounding them filling in stuff. And then there's a quote that is, we are all in this story together, which is an excerpt from a poem by Sally Atkins, an American poet that the ladies from Women Writing for a Change. They chose that quote, which I felt like really, really encompassed what Silver Tune is about and what the organization is about. So the women, they kind of represent different things. One is about strength and resilience, another is about ideas and philosophies. And then third one is kind of creative expression Speaker 1 (16:27): And Speaker 2 (16:29): The arts. And so each of them kind of are surrounded by then this rich foliage, which Silverton is known for, its urban forestry. That's a thing for them. And so I have a bunch of different leaves and bushes and I've got some leaves that are actually the silver Linden leaf, which is Silverton, what they're named for. I've got that scallop pattern, which I turned into grapes, which Meyer's Winery is one of the oldest wineries in the area. So to celebrate that, their heritage there, they're also a really diverse community. That's been a core thing for them for a long time. So the women are different colors and different hairstyles, different textures. So I really wanted to include diversity in that. There are also some little kind of halos. They're these kind of mandalas almost that kind of surround, they're kind of coming from everywhere a little bit, that kind of representing inspiration and that it can come from anywhere and everywhere and you don't know necessarily when it's going to hit. So there's lot of meaning packed Speaker 1 (17:51): Into Speaker 2 (17:51): The mural, but I had a lot of fun making it, and the kids I think are going to do a great job of painting it. Speaker 1 (17:58): Cool, cool. Well, I was hoping you would come with me to go look at the new exhibition Speaker 2 (18:06): Make Speaker 1 (18:06): Way for Ducklings the Art of Robert McCloskey. Let's do it. This will be, I'm assuming you haven't seen it yet, have you? Speaker 2 (18:12): I have not. It Speaker 1 (18:13): Just opened. Speaker 2 (18:14): I've been saving Speaker 1 (18:15): A few days ago. So you didn't have a lot of chances to been saving it? I haven't either. So I've Speaker 2 (18:19): Heard amazing things about Speaker 1 (18:20): It. I have not been step foot in this show, so Perfect. We will be on the equal footing in our looking at it, so let's go. Speaker 2 (18:28): Awesome. Speaker 1 (18:28): Let's do it. So we are in the special exhibition make Way for Duck Lings, the Art of Robert McCloskey, and just before we started recording, we were both kind of raving about this show, both pretty blown away. I think. Speaker 2 (18:58): Definitely. Speaker 1 (18:58): I've been looking a lot of these images for a while, but I haven't seen everything obviously. And yeah, I'm still kind of really impressed by it. I don't know. What kind of blew you away the most or what kind of impressed you the most? Speaker 2 (19:15): His draftsmanship is incredible, and also I think one of the first things I said was his economy of line is just insane. So he says so much with just one line of the pencil or the ink. Speaker 1 (19:32): Yeah, you said that. And we were over here and I think that's something that's interesting is I think there all unmistakably him, but he also changes up quite Speaker 2 (19:43): A Speaker 1 (19:44): Lot, which Speaker 2 (19:45): Is incredible too. Speaker 1 (19:46): Yeah, Speaker 2 (19:47): I think I was noticing it, especially with, so these illustrations from Homer Price and it's also really evident in Make Way for Ducklings the final illustrations. He just says so much with so little, it's so clean and precise, but it doesn't become stiff. He still has a lot of life in his drawings. Speaker 1 (20:13): This is something, one of the things I love, the floorboards in this drawing here that we're looking at that's in a barbershop and the way he just gets just enough of the floorboards in there to give us that we know they're there. We don't need every little detail of those floorboards and he smartly drops them out so that we focus on this chair in the foreground and if you kind of got rid of those floorboards that are further in the background, we would just have this chair floating and floating space, but our mind continues them on and fills the space. So he's so good at that of like you're saying, giving us just enough to fill out the picture and then letting, putting the details where they need to be and not putting them where they don't need to be. Speaker 2 (21:08): There's nothing unnecessary here, but it's still so rich. Speaker 1 (21:13): Yeah, they're very good. And yeah, this one before it too, when you were just talking about those really clean, simple lines Speaker 2 (21:22): Of Speaker 1 (21:22): That the bar there that has just mostly just very straightforward lines, just these little shadows. It's just enough. And then again, if you look at the part of, if you kind of focus on where there is a little more attention paid to them, it's the things that probably are much more important to the story, right? Speaker 2 (21:45): Absolutely. Speaker 1 (21:46): Your eye gets drawn to those places that are probably what was being illustrated more directly, right? Speaker 2 (21:51): Yeah. I love the movement of So Homer, right? That's the Speaker 1 (21:59): Character Speaker 2 (22:00): I Speaker 1 (22:00): Think. So the Speaker 2 (22:00): Kid is sweeping, he's mopping this floor and these water droplets are coming up. It creates such a really great sense of movement, Speaker 1 (22:11): But Speaker 2 (22:11): None of it feels messy. It doesn't feel messy or unneeded. There's no mark here that is unnecessary, which is really cool. Speaker 1 (22:21): Yeah, those little puddles and stuff, they're done with such economy like you mentioned. So you have just that little swoop down at the bottom and it doesn't have to necessarily connect either. He kind of knows like, oh no, I can just leave that hanging Speaker 2 (22:36): And you can tell that he's just sort of taken this in one fell swoop and just sort of made these puddles with seeming ease just totally. Yeah, I have no Speaker 1 (22:53): Words. I've blown away. Speaker 2 (22:55): Blown away. Speaker 1 (22:57): That's great. Yeah, this is definitely, I mean, if you're a drawing nerd, you'll get real excited by all of this stuff. I'm Speaker 2 (23:04): Geeking out hard for sure. Speaker 1 (23:05): Yeah, this little make wave for Duckling Bay here that we're in now is also just very charming. And when I came in, I love this case that has a little replica of the Mette for the sculpture, Speaker 2 (23:17): And I also love seeing the actual cow dicot metal. Speaker 1 (23:20): Yeah, I did not expect that either. It was, I didn't either. Speaker 2 (23:22): Oh, wow. That was great. And you can see the other side of it that says, for the most distinguished American picture book for children, which you don't see because that's the other side of the metal, you always see the other side which Speaker 1 (23:38): Is printed on the cover, which Speaker 2 (23:40): Right. Yeah. So that's really cool to see. Speaker 1 (23:42): Yeah. Yeah, and this was like make Way for Ducklings is probably the book I knew the best. Yeah, me too. Probably Honestly, the only one I knew before started talking about this exhibit, but it's so famous and I guess I remember also just not being that excited by it as a kid. I was just kind of like, okay, whatever. It's Speaker 2 (24:05): An older story and fuels the pacing is different. I mean this was made in the Speaker 1 (24:11): Forties, I think 41. Yeah, 41. Speaker 2 (24:12): Yeah, 41. Speaker 1 (24:13): So Speaker 2 (24:14): Kids now, they're not used to a story that's paced this way, but it has such a beautiful calming nature to it Speaker 1 (24:23): That I think Speaker 2 (24:23): We don't always get with kids stories. Now also something that I have noticed when I've been talking about, oh yeah, are you going to go see the McCloskey exhibit? People say they're super surprised to hear that he's from Ohio because everyone thinks that he's from Boston. Speaker 1 (24:41): Yeah. Because of this, Speaker 2 (24:42): Which is incredible because his attention to bringing the landscape to life, it's like a third character in this. We have the ducklings, the parents, or I'm sorry, we have the two ducks and then all of the ducklings, but then there's this other character that is Boston, it's the city, which is so great. It almost seems like he's a native Bostonian because of the love that he gives to all of the backgrounds, the buildings, the park, all of the water, everything is given such a love and attention to detail. That is really cool. Speaker 1 (25:25): Yeah, I mean you can see the bridges here in the background are very specific and you can just tell Yeah, Speaker 2 (25:31): Super specific Speaker 1 (25:32): That a lot of attention is paid to making sure that those locations are given that kind of attention and that they can shine through in that way. Speaker 2 (25:40): Yep. Speaker 1 (25:41): Yeah, I think what's interesting is I am thinking of why these don't appeal to me maybe as much ironically since they're his most well-known work, Speaker 2 (25:51): And Speaker 1 (25:51): I think it is that I feel like he's so good with ink and the watercolor that I feel like he's maybe not quite as amazing with the graphite. It's good. They're very good drawings and you're saying he's an amazing draftsman. He is an amazing draftsman. So it's like all of that still shines through no matter what, but they just don't quite do it for me in the way that even the Homer price and the blueberries for Sal, the way he uses ink in those is just so Speaker 2 (26:22): Stunning, Speaker 1 (26:23): So good. And I think he's good with the graphite, but it's like, I don't know if he's quite as good with the graphite. I mean, not trying to throw shade at the Speaker 2 (26:36): Fans Speaker 1 (26:37): Are just McCloskey so upset right now, mean intense show. When I think about how much more I would probably like these drawings if they were in ink, if they were Speaker 2 (26:47): Inked Speaker 1 (26:47): And they had that really beautiful line Speaker 2 (26:50): That Speaker 1 (26:50): You were talking about, and I think that's part of why I'm just kind of like, huh, okay, Speaker 2 (26:54): Well a lot of these aren't finals. Speaker 1 (26:56): That's true. That's true. Which is probably part of that, Speaker 2 (26:58): Which is also incredible because there's so much detail in this. This seems like it could be a final illustration, but it's not. And that also points to his commitment to quality and all of these drafts of before he even gets to the final illustration is nuts to me. So I think in some of the final illustrations, we get a lot more of that economy of line. You see that he's just made one line and that he hasn't gone back over it. There's a beauty and a simplicity to it, but I do agree, I think that his ink work that's showcased in blueberries, foral does seem to maybe be stronger Speaker 1 (27:40): And I mean that's a very good point to bring up about these not being the final version. So I mean, obviously they're a little looser and a little messier than the finals would be, but there is still, when I think of that final artwork in the printed version of Make Wave for Duckling, it's got that kind of the tooth of the paper shining through with the graphite. You can see that in there, and so it's fine. There's something about that feeling that just I don't quite respond to Speaker 2 (28:10): Personally. Not quite sure. Speaker 1 (28:11): It's not my thing. That's me, so if you love it, then that's fine. Speaker 2 (28:16): I'm inwardly just like seething. How dare you. No, I think I agree. Speaker 1 (28:23): Yeah. Speaker 2 (28:23): I think blueberries for sale is perhaps his strongest Speaker 1 (28:27): In Speaker 2 (28:27): This show, Speaker 1 (28:29): And that's interesting is to me about the show is that this is the work he is most famous for and it's probably the thing I'm least impressed by and not that it's not impressive, and there's so much to admire, mean especially mean really. We were talking, he's so good, and as I was going through these, I'm just like, yeah, he's really great at almost everything, Speaker 2 (28:52): Which is very annoying. Speaker 1 (28:55): His compositions in this are so good. Speaker 2 (28:58): He's so good. Speaker 1 (28:59): It's Speaker 2 (29:00): Stupid Speaker 1 (29:01): The way he is setting up these scenes to get you to look at exactly what you need to be Speaker 2 (29:07): Looking at, Speaker 1 (29:08): But also not in a way that's super obvious. He's not this one with the ducks walking in front of this storefront here. The way that they are allowed to be so small, Speaker 2 (29:24): That could easily be a composition where everything gets swallowed up or the details that we need gets swallowed up by the traffic light or the storefront, but it's, it's actually very clear. Speaker 1 (29:37): We Speaker 2 (29:37): Know exactly what we're supposed to be looking at. Speaker 1 (29:39): I think it could also be very easy for the ducks to dominate these pictures because they're the ducks. It's the story Speaker 2 (29:47): About them. It's about them. Speaker 1 (29:48): And you would almost, that would be maybe my instinct, and I think why what he's doing so well is he keeps it at that human scale Speaker 2 (29:57): For Speaker 1 (29:57): Sure. That it's like it makes us focus on how small the dogs are in this Speaker 2 (30:03): World, which then highlights how vulnerable they are, especially when we first get to the scene where they're hitting traffic at the first time, and then we see this intersection where the police are finally helping out. They're holding back traffic so the ducks can go across. They are tiny. They are so tiny. You just see this little line, the eight little ducks going across. But yeah, I think you're really right to point out that it's all on a human scale so that it highlights how dangerous this could be. Speaker 1 (30:39): This is a high stakes situation here in the illustration over there before where I think it's a book I haven't read for years, but I feel like is at the beginning of the book where it's setting up the mother duckling or the mother and her ducklings, and at that point we're kind of more in nature, and so it's more on a duck scale, Speaker 2 (31:00): And Speaker 1 (31:01): We're getting that. It feels more like that. They're dominating the picture frame a lot more, and that makes sense in that world. And then it's like as we go out into the city, they get smaller and smaller in the frame and a lot of these, which is really cool. Speaker 2 (31:18): Yeah, it is cool. Speaker 1 (31:19): Yeah. Well, let's move on. Yeah, you kind of feel like, especially when you come in the show, you see all these black and white drawings and you're kind of like, oh, he's obviously very good at black and white, and then you get to these color and you're like, oh man, he's really good at color. Speaker 2 (31:34): He's so good. And I actually didn't realize that this one, the time of Wonder, which came out in 57, that also was a Caldecott winner, and it's these gorgeous, gorgeous paintings, or No, it's watercolor. Speaker 1 (31:53): Watercolor, yeah. Speaker 2 (31:53): It has a gache quality Speaker 1 (31:54): To it. I know. I kept thinking that with the, I think he uses a lot of white in the watercolor, which is what gives it that impression. I did the same thing with the next one with a lot of that. It was like, oh, this is guash, right? And then I was like, no, it's watercolor, but I could see I got kind of close and I could see that he was using a lot of white, which gives it that kind of gushy effect. Speaker 2 (32:13): Yeah. What's cool is that by this time in his life, from what I understand is that they had moved to Maine. They bought a house, and so that is really clear in these paintings. He has Speaker 1 (32:27): This, they bought an island, Speaker 2 (32:28): Which is insane. I'm just going to move to Maine and buy an island. Speaker 1 (32:33): I know. Speaker 2 (32:35): But his love for the landscape and the life that they're living here is clearly being showcased in, for example, this final illustration that's showing kind of a far away landscape of all these islands, and then you're seeing this sort of gentle rainfall that's kind of coming down from it, these great clouds. He clearly loves this place that is really coming through in his illustrations, Speaker 1 (33:03): And again, that amazing variety of scale that he's using in make. Absolutely. I mean, if you look at all of these different pictures, we have the humans at different scales, the boats at different scale. It's like he's really keeping a lot of variety and how close and how far away he zooms in and giving you exactly what you need to get from that and exactly what's the point of the picture. Speaker 2 (33:29): Yep. Speaker 1 (33:30): So good. Yeah, and then you were pretty impressed by some of this, so we have this little section of just his own kind of private works, Speaker 2 (33:37): Super impressed, Speaker 1 (33:38): Just kind of art for art's sake, we could call them. Speaker 2 (33:41): Yeah. I mean, he even has this, he's got a woodcut book plate over here that's Speaker 1 (33:46): Just Speaker 2 (33:47): So good, and then he's got these other gorgeous watercolor paintings that are just for fun, these great landscapes. I love the way he paints buildings. Yeah, Speaker 1 (34:00): They're really nice. Again, it can be really hard to, I think mean he paints a building as if it were just a part of the landscape. Speaker 2 (34:11): Right. Speaker 1 (34:12): Again, it can be a little tempting to get into the weeds with the architecture of this stuff. Absolutely. And he's just giving us just enough, the front of this building, which is getting the most of the light, has no sense of the siding on it, just kind of all blown out, essentially. And then we only get this little hint of it, just like you did with the floorboards, just these little Speaker 2 (34:35): Nice, nothing unnecessary. Speaker 1 (34:36): Yes. Yeah. Even look at the wiggs of that chimney, I think that's so great to just be able to like, yeah, that's fine. You don't really notice it. It feels solid. When you stand back and you look at it and you don't really pay attention to it, we kind again, our brain snaps it into place. Yeah. Yeah. It's a chimney. We know what it's, we get Speaker 2 (34:57): It. He's not too rigid. He's fine with these lines that are supposed to be completely straight and they're not. He's okay with leaving that there. Speaker 1 (35:06): Yeah. It's a real testament to get into how much variety he has, because I feel like especially if I was just basing this on his work for Make Way for Ducklings, I would've assumed he's a little more rigid in his style, and then Speaker 2 (35:22): Especially, I think even more so in blueberries for Sal, Speaker 1 (35:25): Very, very controlled. Very much so. Super controlled. But then if we kind of dip around the corner here, and I want to get the title right, is it, Speaker 2 (35:37): It's Speaker 1 (35:38): The Speaker 2 (35:39): Bert Bow Deep Waterman, right? Is that what you're talking about? Speaker 1 (35:42): Yes. Yes. Yeah. These ones for Dow Deep Waterman. Whoa, what a title. Oh, man. These paintings are just really interesting to me because they have moments of kind of control, but then you get to these weird Polly esque splatters, Speaker 2 (36:02): He's literally getting spit out of the mouth of a whale, and there are these hilarious, he's got these lines of movement, and there's one that's just like a squiggle, and they're just sort of going like that. And then he's got all these splatters, Speaker 1 (36:19): The splatters on the tail, the ones coming up, those next to the ones of him painting the inside of the whale, like Pollock, Speaker 2 (36:27): Right? It's very akian. Speaker 1 (36:31): But I love the connection between that on the outside, both intentionally and then the way that he's painting these splashes on the tail, which feel like he's obviously taking influence from that abstract expressionist Absolutely. Paintings in this kid's book. And I was like, whoa. When I got to this point and saw those splashes, I was just so excited because again, it's something so wild and so free and somebody who obviously has a lot of control for sure. So I mean, he just is so good at knowing when to let that go, even man, look at these little paint lines down here in the waves. Oh, it's so Speaker 2 (37:12): Good. Speaker 1 (37:13): The way it goes from the way it's controlled Speaker 2 (37:16): Over Speaker 1 (37:16): On this side with the boat, and then it dips into these beautiful Speaker 2 (37:20): Kind of squiggly Speaker 1 (37:21): Pattern. I mean, it's so, so amazing that he's able to do that. I don't know. Absolutely. Yeah. And just again, the color in these, I mean that one where you were just talking about the boat popping out, I mean that is just some of the best use of color of anything. The way the Speaker 2 (37:43): Use of pink is very unexpected, and I think it's incredible. Speaker 1 (37:50): The pink on the boat, the way the boat is kind of both the whale, the matches, the whale and the sea, and then the only yellow in the whole picture is him, Speaker 2 (37:59): Which is so good. Speaker 1 (38:01): That lets him do, again, a master of scale. He's got that character so tiny so that he can make that whale so big. We never see all of the whale. It's too big to fit in the frame, and it's just like he's created this massive sense of scale by how he's, well, that's all I'm trying to say. He's created this massive sense of scale. That's all I'm trying to Speaker 2 (38:26): Say. Yep. And you got it. Speaker 1 (38:27): Yep. And it's just so good. Speaker 2 (38:31): Yeah, absolutely. I Speaker 1 (38:32): Love it. I got real into looking at the texture on this whale. Speaker 2 (38:37): Oh my gosh, me too. Speaker 1 (38:38): Were you, how did he do Speaker 2 (38:39): That? Seriously? I leaned forward Speaker 1 (38:42): Same Speaker 2 (38:42): Really close. And I was like, how did he do that? Because it's next to this's. Really? Almost airbrushed. Speaker 1 (38:50): Oh my gosh. Super. I think he's training Speaker 2 (38:53): With watercolor. Speaker 1 (38:53): Yeah, I think it's just wet on wet. Speaker 2 (38:55): Yeah, wet on wet. But it looks like a weathered skin that he's, I actually don't know how he made it. Speaker 1 (39:05): I mean, the best I can tell is again, we were talking about the kind of washiness of it, Speaker 2 (39:10): And Speaker 1 (39:11): I mean, are we doing just the, we are so inside baseball here, we are not explaining ourselves at all. I know too. Drawing people talking about drawing. I know. And we, I would like to apologize to the listeners. Yeah. So sorry guys, I'm really sorry. So Gu, we should probably do a primer. That is not something, everybody knows what watercolor is, but people do not know what guash is. Speaker 2 (39:33): Guash is like an opaque watercolor Speaker 1 (39:36): Basically. That's a great way water soluble. And it's used in a lot of illustration because you can get these really beautiful flat colors with it, so you can, unlike watercolor, which is really hard to get sort of a, because it's so transparent, watercolor is always doing its own thing too. Speaker 2 (39:56): Yeah. It has a mind of its own, which actually is why I love it so much, but with guash, you can get a much more controlled look. I don't use it that often. I don't really know how to get it to do what I want it to do, but it's almost like a marriage between an acrylic and a watercolor, Speaker 1 (40:15): And I'd almost kind of wonder, I mean, the more I look at this, I wonder if they're just kind of chalking it up to just calling both of them watercolor, because I Speaker 2 (40:23): Think so Speaker 1 (40:23): Because there are parts like that tongue to me looks like guash. Speaker 2 (40:26): It all looks like guash to me. And I saw in one of the descriptors that it said it was an opaque watercolor, Speaker 1 (40:34): But Speaker 2 (40:34): I think it's just Speaker 1 (40:35): Squashed. Yeah. I think we might be just splitting hairs on Speaker 2 (40:41): Pink words Speaker 1 (40:42): Here, but I mean, yeah, I think the only part of this that looks like very traditional watercolor to me is Speaker 2 (40:46): That background, Speaker 1 (40:47): Background. And even it's a Speaker 2 (40:49): Little, it even looks kind of gushy to Speaker 1 (40:51): Me. Yeah. Although doing that with GU is not easy. It's getting that kind of, it's, yeah. So I don't know mean it does look kind of wet on wet, but yeah, it's unknown. The texture. I mean, I feel like he has this darker color down for the whale, and then he's got that lighter, opaque color that he is maybe using some kind of texture to apply Speaker 2 (41:12): It. Yeah. I don't know. I Speaker 1 (41:13): Really cannot tell, because you Speaker 2 (41:15): Can get a lot of really cool textures by just putting something on top of the paint and letting it dry that way. But I don't dunno. I don't know what he did. Speaker 1 (41:25): I mean, there are parts where maybe I think he's gone in and actually painted in a little bit to connect maybe. So some of the texture is random. Some of it is he's kind of adding to it and working with it to, I don't know what It's just knows. So impressive. Speaker 2 (41:46): It's very impressive. Speaker 1 (41:48): Cool. Speaker 2 (41:48): Well, now that we've geeked out for a million years about paint, that's good. Speaker 1 (41:54): Good job for nobody else but ourselves. Speaker 2 (41:55): Sorry guys. Speaker 1 (41:59): Oh man. Yeah. Which one is this? Speaker 2 (42:03): This is one morning in Maine. Speaker 1 (42:05): One morning in Maine? Speaker 2 (42:05): Yeah. Yeah. Which is, it feels similar in, well, they're both side of Maine, but it kind of feels similar to blueberries fors just in the landscape because they're both set of Maine, so that makes sense. Speaker 1 (42:20): Yeah. I didn't even look to see what's the final art for these. These are all, again, Speaker 2 (42:25): None of these are final. Speaker 1 (42:26): Final. Yeah. I'm kind of curious to see what the final, Speaker 2 (42:29): I don't think we have any of the finals for Oh, you mean in the book? Speaker 1 (42:33): Yeah. We have these books over here, so I'm Speaker 2 (42:34): Like, yeah, which I actually really appreciated that. Now we can look through. Speaker 1 (42:38): Yeah, I know we were talking about make way for ducklings and stuff, so I'm curious to see these have they still have that very graphite feel that they do is similar to make way for ducklings? Speaker 2 (42:53): This feels more like the earlier piece, the Speaker 1 (42:56): Homer price. Speaker 2 (42:57): Homer price. I think because there are more figures, there are more people Speaker 1 (43:02): In Speaker 2 (43:02): It. Speaker 1 (43:04): Yeah. I mean when you look at also, he's letting it be kind of, I mean, it's still like these lines here that's Speaker 2 (43:12): Just Speaker 1 (43:13): Being so Speaker 2 (43:13): Precise white Speaker 1 (43:14): With just little line and then letting other areas be So, I don't know. What's the word Speaker 2 (43:26): I, I dunno what you're saying. I know because I'm Speaker 1 (43:28): Not saying Speaker 2 (43:29): Anything. He's confident enough in his, whichever medium he's using, he lets white really be white. Speaker 1 (43:39): That's a good point. Speaker 2 (43:41): And then he also, he just works with such confidence. That's just really inspiring. He doesn't feel like he needs to add all these extra things, which then goes back to what we were talking about Speaker 1 (43:54): In Speaker 2 (43:54): His economy of line. There's nothing that's unnecessary in these illustrations. Speaker 1 (43:58): Yeah. Yeah. Boy, see, now I'm looking through make wave for ducklings and I want to take back everything Speaker 2 (44:03): Negative said about it. Love it. You love it now. Speaker 1 (44:05): Boy, these drawings are Speaker 2 (44:06): All good too. So good. I love how much it feels like HJ ray. It feels like Curious George to me, partially in that it's graphite and has that more textured pencil feel. And partially because it's like animals in a city and also partially because they're sort of around the same era. I think this is earlier than Speaker 1 (44:31): Curious George, but I actually Speaker 2 (44:33): Don't know. Really curious. George was maybe the Speaker 1 (44:35): 16th, 19th. Speaker 2 (44:37): 19th. Speaker 1 (44:38): Yeah. Speaker 2 (44:39): Good year. Speaker 1 (44:39): Good year. Yeah. But there is a similarity between One Day and Maine and Make Way for Ducklings, I feel like. But maybe look at this. I'm sorry. We're now just turning pages and is getting really excited about just drawings, but I feel like they're may be a little less economic than make way for ducklings. There's just a lot more Speaker 2 (44:59): Detail going on. Yeah, there's a lot more going on, Speaker 1 (45:01): But man, look at this. Look good at this over here. Speaker 2 (45:04): So cool. He's just drawn a tree line, a whole thing of treeline just by doing a bunch of zigzags. Speaker 1 (45:11): Yeah, that's nuts. But the brilliance of it is, so we have this island often. This is, we're looking at a page from one Day in Maine, one morning in Maine, sorry, it's Speaker 2 (45:19): Page 63 Speaker 1 (45:21): In case for Speaker 2 (45:22): Those of you following along in your books, Speaker 1 (45:27): Turn now in your Bibles to page 63. Oh, that's right. So we have one island that's a little bit closer in the foreground and it's pretty painstaking tree drawings, right. Look at all of this. Speaker 2 (45:43): There's a lot of detailing. Speaker 1 (45:44): And then there's an island right across from it. Not even that far in the background, but he has just given this maybe squiggle, squiggle, squiggle, squiggle, squiggle, squiggle. Speaker 2 (45:55): And it looks so good. It does. It's so annoying how good that looks. And Speaker 1 (46:00): It looks especially good in the way it's reflected in the water. Look at the way this is reflected and then the way, I mean, he's so good. We're just getting annoyed by him now. Speaker 2 (46:11): We're just very annoying. We're Speaker 1 (46:12): Just paying attention to all these label little things that he's getting away with that it's just kind of miraculous. And it's like he couldn't have gotten away with that. I feel like if he hadn't done this here, Speaker 2 (46:22): You have to establish the level of detail here in order to then be like, no, I'm not going to give it. And that also helps with, I know that I need to be looking at this more. My eye is going to be drawn to these details so much more, and I don't have to look as much at this island that's here in the background Speaker 1 (46:41): Because Speaker 2 (46:42): It's not given as much time. Speaker 1 (46:44): But gosh, I also, I just really love it. Me, I love looking over there to see all those little squiggles, but it is kind of funny because when you do what we're doing and you just isolate that part of the page and look at it, it does become so crazy and so radical to compare to this. It's so insane that these two things are existing in the same drawing. Speaker 2 (47:06): Yep. Speaker 1 (47:07): Oh my gosh. So good. Alright, McCloskey, I'm done with you. Let's go look over at some of these adorable bears. Perfect. Which are so cute. And blueberries for Sal, Speaker 2 (47:21): Which Sal is based off of his daughter whose name was Sally. Is that right? I think Speaker 1 (47:29): So. Sounds good to me. I knew it was a daughter. Sounds about right. And that seems like what you would shorten. The only lady name I can think of that could be shortened to Sal boy, this one, this first one here at the top with that bear making that face, it's like who is just so good, Speaker 2 (47:50): Which I think is towards the end of the book, they realize that their children Speaker 1 (47:55): Have been switched because Speaker 2 (47:59): Somehow, and it's been forever since I've read this, somehow the kid and the bear cub follow the incorrect parent. Speaker 1 (48:10): Yeah. Well it says here, I think it's got the page numbers and the label, so it looks like this is 42 to 43 and then below it is 48 to 49. So it looks like pretty deep into the book at that point and and I love that it is mimicking the same compositions. Speaker 2 (48:26): Oh yeah. It's so good. Well, and also the wording too. So this is not my child, where is little bear, and then in the next piece where the bear cub is looking at the mom, she says, my goodness, you are not little Sal. Where is my child? So there is this repetition and then the similarity in composition is also adding to that. Yeah, it's delightful. Speaker 1 (48:51): And the bear's sticking out his tongue. Speaker 2 (48:53): I Speaker 1 (48:53): Know. They're like, whoa, so cute. So cute. Yeah. He's just got, I mean, again, so good at just anatomy, drawing these people in a playful way, but a way, just look at those hands real good. We're Speaker 2 (49:10): Not losing any of the integrity of the human form, but there is also clearly a stylization Speaker 1 (49:17): That's Speaker 2 (49:17): Happening. Yeah, it's great. Speaker 1 (49:21): Yeah. And just the way the fur, Speaker 2 (49:25): The he's done, the fur and then even the way he's done each individual leaf of the Speaker 1 (49:30): Bushes, Speaker 2 (49:32): It's incredible. And I mean there are spaces here where the bush, so we're looking at page 30 and 31 and it's Sal following the mama bear, and there's a space here where we have a lot of leaves around the bush, and then there's sort of this empty space where he's just suggesting that we have the rest of the bush where the leaves are being filled in and your brain fills that in, which is so cool. Speaker 1 (50:02): Well, and he uses that to create volume, so absolutely he's using less drawing to give more white of the page to show us where the light is hitting it. And then instead of drawing, he's doing on her legs, doing these cross hatchy lines to create shadow. He's just simply using the lines of the leaves themselves to create that volume so Speaker 2 (50:27): Freaking good. Speaker 1 (50:29): And gosh, the way he lets the fur of that be super black, just dense, big areas of black, and then the way it ripples into the light reflecting off the bear. Gosh, Speaker 2 (50:44): I also really love that included in the show is a lot of his sketches, little sketchbooks, his preliminary sketches, his studies, so he went to the Central Park Zoo and just drew the bears. Speaker 1 (50:57): Yeah, those bear drawings are so good. Speaker 2 (51:00): They're really good. He's captured so much of the bear's essence in so few lines, Speaker 1 (51:06): But doing it also in the way that I think what's impressive is that he's already kind of applying his stylistic flourishes on Speaker 2 (51:15): The Speaker 1 (51:15): Bear. So it's kind of fun to think about him looking at real bears and drawing them in a way that's like not exactly how real bears Speaker 2 (51:23): Look, Speaker 1 (51:25): But you can also tell that he's clearly being influenced by the actual anatomy of the bear. Speaker 2 (51:31): For sure. Speaker 1 (51:32): Those ears are a little too cutesy. Right. Speaker 2 (51:34): A little too big, little too round. Speaker 1 (51:36): Yeah. They're already in that world while at the Central Park Zoo, which is kind of great. It's great. I feel like I would have a hard time not drawing the bears into a little bit more academic way. If I was at the zoo, I would have trouble separating those out, doing it all in one motion. I feel like I could draw the bears there, take it home, and then start to abstract it out Speaker 2 (52:01): And then put your own style into it. Yeah. Speaker 1 (52:03): Yeah. I think he's doing it all in one fell swoop, which is kind of impressive. Speaker 2 (52:09): Yeah, it Speaker 1 (52:09): Is impressive. Speaker 2 (52:10): I also like that he's just using clearly an old marker or something, Speaker 1 (52:15): Getting a lot out of that marker. Speaker 2 (52:18): Yeah. He really is. That marker has seen better days Speaker 1 (52:21): And maybe just how much variety of line he's getting out of the marker just knows how to press just to get the different tones out of it to get those really dark areas and then just gentle brush of it. So good. And then this piece is just also Speaker 2 (52:44): Adorable, this study for Sal and Bear Cub for blueberries, for Sal, and so it's just a study and yet the color he's using and it's just, yeah, it's just incredible. Speaker 1 (52:58): Yeah. This bear licking its lips Speaker 2 (53:00): Is so cute. So cute. And there's also so much life in it, which is great. Speaker 1 (53:06): He's a little chubbier than I feel like the bear and the book. Speaker 2 (53:08): He is a little chubs Speaker 1 (53:09): The bear, and I wonder if the choice was made to change to make more connections between Sal and the Bear because the bear has become kind of lanky Speaker 2 (53:20): In Speaker 1 (53:20): The book and kind of skinny like the girl. Speaker 2 (53:24): Yeah. Speaker 1 (53:25): So I kind of wonder if that was made to help kind of make a connection between them, but this bear is so adorable, Speaker 2 (53:32): So cute. I also feel really bad because the entire time of seeing blueberries for Sal as a book, I thought that Sal was a boy. Speaker 1 (53:42): I don't think that's uncommon. We've made that correction in the office a few times of people Speaker 2 (53:47): Talking about it. It's a little girl. It's Sally. Speaker 1 (53:49): Yeah. Yeah. Oh man. Okay. Geek out time again. Just look at these areas down here in these drawings and the brown and the ground, and then the way this brown, it's the same brown in the bottom of the bear, Speaker 2 (54:06): And then Speaker 1 (54:06): This claw Speaker 2 (54:07): Just Speaker 1 (54:08): Disappears into the landscape, but so good. It makes sense. We get it. We know what's going on. Speaker 2 (54:14): Right? Yeah. He's adding just enough details in just the right places, and then the rest is just kind of a blurred out kind of watery gorgeousness. Speaker 1 (54:28): Yeah. Yeah. It's so perfect, so Speaker 2 (54:30): Descriptive. Speaker 1 (54:30): I know. I mean, it's like a study, but it's so perfect still. Speaker 2 (54:34): It feels like a final piece. Yeah, totally. It could be a final piece. It could be a, which is how I feel about all of his studies Speaker 1 (54:39): In Speaker 2 (54:39): General. All these sketches for make way for ducklings, all of his prelim stuff could totally be final illustrations. Speaker 1 (54:46): I mean, this would be a great cover, right? It Speaker 2 (54:48): Would. It'd be real fun, Speaker 1 (54:49): Beautiful cover art, Speaker 2 (54:50): But his commitment to quality and it being the best it could be is very inspiring to me. Speaker 1 (54:58): Yeah. Yeah. Well, he's so confident, there's so much confidence in this drawing in almost all of them. I mean, even in the, actually, I think that is one thing you can really tell. Maybe if we follow the show sort of chronologically, I would say those early drawings do not necessarily have this level of confidence in them where he's totally able to just be like, yeah, it's good. I'll little squiggle here. That's Speaker 2 (55:27): All I need. Speaker 1 (55:28): That's good. I feel like we were talking about some of the similarities for One Day in Maine and Homer Price, and I feel like that island with the little squiggles, that is not something you see in these earlier drawings. Speaker 2 (55:41): Yeah, for sure. He would not have done that in Homer Price at Speaker 1 (55:45): All. That comes with the confidence of age and the ability to know, yeah, I can get away with this. Speaker 2 (55:50): Right. Yeah. So good. So good. Oh man. Speaker 1 (55:55): Well, we've made a thoroughly geeky and probably alienating episode. Speaker 2 (56:03): Oh man. Hopefully we have some. Speaker 1 (56:06): I know. I hope there's Speaker 2 (56:07): Paint nerds listening. Speaker 1 (56:08): I know. I hope somebody out there is with us on our willing to come along with us on this journey. Absolutely. Of geeking out because, oh man, this is, oh, don't you just want to go home and draw? Speaker 2 (56:20): Yes, absolutely. I totally want to go get some tracing paper and then study more of his stuff and then just try to emulate it and then weep because I can't, Speaker 1 (56:33): Yeah. I wish I could go back to my desk and draw. Instead I'll be editing this Speaker 2 (56:41): Real life. Speaker 1 (56:41): Well, we didn't really talk about your books. You should tell us what we can buy. Speaker 2 (56:48): Yeah. Speaker 1 (56:49): Love your stuff. Speaker 2 (56:51): My book is called What Is Soft, and I just illustrated it. Speaker 1 (56:59): I just Speaker 2 (56:59): Illustrated it. It is written by Susan Cantor, lovely woman who lives in New York, and it is about the basic concept. We're introducing the concept of soft to little ones. So it's a board book. So for toddlers, it's the books that are made out of those cardboard pages so they don't get destroyed as easily. You know what? They want to destroy everything at that age. Speaker 1 (57:24): Yeah. It's great. They can take more just slobbering and fit and Speaker 2 (57:28): Red in the mouth. It can take a little more of a beating than a normal book. So yeah, it is about soft things. It's rhyming, so it's really calming. It's a good bedtime book. Also, it's like a really springy book. Really fun, bright colors. Yeah. It ends with a bedtime scene, so it's nice and calming. Nice. Speaker 1 (57:52): And where can we follow you? Speaker 2 (57:54): You can follow me on Instagram and other social media things at Hooray, Lorraine, which I apologize. Lorraine is my middle name, so it's spelled L O R R A I N E, and Horay is H O O R A Y. Speaker 1 (58:13): So Speaker 2 (58:13): Hooray, Lorraine. I'm on Instagram most actively. Yeah. And you can buy the book@bluemanateepress.com. Yeah. Or you can come into the bookstore. Speaker 1 (58:23): Awesome. Well, thank you so much for being my guest today. Speaker 2 (58:26): Thank you. This was a blast and a half. Cool. Speaker 1 (58:36): Thank you for listening to Art Palace. We hope you'll be inspired to come visit the Cincinnati Art Museum and have conversations about the art yourself. General admission to the museum is always free, and we also offer free parking. The special exhibitions on view right now are Make Way for Ducklings the Art of Robert McCloskey and Terracotta Army legacy of the First Emperor of China. If you'd like to learn more about the exhibition we looked at in today's episode, join us on Sunday, July 29th at 3:00 PM for a free gallery experience on Robert McCloskey, led by director of Education, Emily Hol Tripp. For program reservations and more information, visit cincinnati art museum.org. You can follow the museum on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Snapchat, and also join our Art Palace Facebook group. Our theme song is A Frond Mu by Balal, and always please rate and review us. It really helps others find the show. I'm Russell Iig, and this has been Art Palace produced by the Cincinnati Art Museum.