Speaker 1 (00:00): Coming up on Art Palace, Speaker 2 (00:02): A painting of an Italian boy who goes searching for fame and fortune. Speaker 1 (00:08): You were reading the label, weren't you? Welcome to Art Palace, produced by Cincinnati Art Museum. This is your host, Russell iig. Speaker 2 (00:28): Here at the Art Speaker 1 (00:29): Palace, we meet cool people and then talk to them about art. Today's cool people are visionaries and voices artists, Jennifer Crow and Marian Cosgrove Rauch, director of Education at Visionaries and Voices. Well, how long have you been an artist, Jennifer? Speaker 2 (00:55): About? Well, all my life I've been an artist, but I've been displaying art about 10 years ago. Speaker 1 (01:03): Okay. Have you just always loved to draw or Speaker 2 (01:07): Forever? Always loved to draw. Speaker 1 (01:09): Yeah. What happened 10 years ago that got you? Speaker 2 (01:12): Oh, I started visionaries and Voices. Speaker 1 (01:16): Okay. How did you get connected? How did you find out about them or Speaker 2 (01:20): A posting on LEDs on one of the lead apartments, I think it was the posting on Guyer in the front office. Speaker 1 (01:29): And so you saw it and were like, Hey, I like to make art. Do you remember what it said or what Speaker 2 (01:35): I thought? Well, it just said about visionaries and voices, and I thought, that's a great place to make art. I want to display my art. I want to forward it a little bit. And I was looking for something to do after graduating from Project Search. So I said, perfect match. Speaker 1 (01:56): You said graduating from Project, what was it called? Speaker 2 (01:59): Search Speaker 1 (02:00): Project Search. What's Project Search? What do they do? Speaker 2 (02:03): They are supposed to, well, I was in the program at Xavier University. They basically, they give you the job skills and match up with a career. I mean, the career doesn't always work out. The track record for five years down the road, having the same one they matched up in product search is like, not very many people Speaker 1 (02:28): Can Speaker 2 (02:29): Do that. Speaker 1 (02:30): Not too common. A lot of people change jobs. That's true. Especially in their twenties. Yeah, that's very true. That's very common. So you said you wanted to actually show your art. What made you excited to do that? Speaker 2 (02:45): Well, at the time I was working with the recreation department that was working with me downtown, a place called Vine Street. Speaker 3 (03:01): And Speaker 2 (03:03): I wasn't doing very well there. I was doing an office. It was during Bengals season, and eventually I decided, Speaker 3 (03:13): Well, Speaker 2 (03:14): I've been doing a whole lot of art in my house. In fact, I had enough art to display, Speaker 3 (03:20): But Speaker 2 (03:21): I wasn't displaying it, so I decided I wanted to make art and show it in Expeditions. Speaker 1 (03:28): Exhibition. Speaker 3 (03:29): Yeah. Speaker 1 (03:30): Yeah. Okay. Speaker 2 (03:31): And that's what visionaries and Voices basically provided. It's an art studio for people with disabilities that want to do more with their art. Speaker 1 (03:43): Well, Marian, I'm sorry. Jennifer's doing a very good job being a spokesperson. I don't know if you have much to do today. Do you? I mean, she's kind of a pro at this. Speaker 3 (03:53): Yeah, it would seem so. Yeah. It's like can always count on Jenny to tell the story. Right? Speaker 1 (03:59): Yeah. She's doing a great job. So Marian, you not only have a connection with visionaries and voices, but you have a long history with the museum as well. So maybe let us know a little bit about your history with, of both of those things, I guess. Speaker 3 (04:15): Okay. Well, I did work here in the Division of Learning interpretation for about 12 years. Started in 2000. I worked part-time before that and then came here and did youth and family audiences primarily, and also did a lot of work with Art World and interactives and just summer camps and all the kinds of activities for youth and family writing, interpretive materials and so on. And then towards the end of the time I was working here, I got involved on a volunteer basis with visionaries and Voices because they needed some teachers for the Teaching Artist program, of which Jenny is a graduate and she, Speaker 2 (04:53): Yeah, since 2008, Speaker 3 (04:54): She can tell you about it. Eight. Speaker 1 (04:55): Oh, cool. Speaker 3 (04:56): 2008. Yeah. Speaker 3 (04:57): So she went through that program and we'll have to tell you about it in general, but I volunteered for that and got very interested in visionaries and voices at that time. And then I subsequently, not in any way connected, but I wound up leaving the art museum to homeschool my son who has disabilities. So while I was doing that, I stayed in touch with visionaries and Voices and became a mentor in the TAP program one year. And then I joined the board for a number of years, but I always kind of wanted to work there. I liked the place so much. It's a really cool place, very positive energy, a lot of good stuff going on. And so I was involved with them in a number of ways. And then last year I did a certificate in Disability Studies Street Children's Hospital, and that made me even more interested. So when the position of education director came up recently, Speaker 2 (05:53): He said, Ooh, Speaker 3 (05:53): Ooh, ooh, I need to apply for that. So I'm really excited to officially on the ground at Visionaries and Voices now and working in the education as the education director, and I'm doing a lot with the Teaching Artist program. You want to tell Russell A. Little bit about that? Speaker 1 (06:09): Yeah. Tell me about, yeah, I'm curious how you got started with the Teaching Artist program and Speaker 2 (06:13): What that's like. Well, a couple of years ago, I was interested in working at a school for people with Speaker 3 (06:20): Disabilities, Speaker 2 (06:21): But it wasn't just people with disabilities, it was people. As I found out I got the thing from Samantha, I was in a FOMO said Lines program, and I was trying to teach my roommate Annie about the reading program. And then Samantha approached me and said, well, you did wonderful at that. Would you like to teach art at Len Grove School to children on the autism spectrum? And I said, okay. So I did that for six years. Speaker 1 (07:05): Wow. So was that the first time you'd done any kind of teaching, or did you have any experience before that? With teaching? Speaker 2 (07:11): Really? That was the first experience. Speaker 1 (07:13): Yeah. What did you learn from it? What did you learn about being a teacher? Speaker 2 (07:20): You have to be flexible with your students. I mean, it was hard. Part of the first, and it takes patience to work with kids on the autism spectrum because dunno, my first year, there was this one student who didn't like to do art, but to do music. And so he treated every day as a dance class. He wanted me to dance around the room with him. That was a max, was it? No, this was Anderson. Oh, okay. I was going to say that was pre max. Yeah, Speaker 3 (07:50): That sounds like my son. Speaker 1 (07:56): Well, that's cool. I am glad you mentioned that you worked with kids on the autism spectrum because actually I know we have a V M V teaching artists coming to our next autism Family exploration, and that's coming up on January 27th. So it's really cool that you guys are, we're bringing you in to do a lot of programs with us this year, and it's really exciting. So I'm glad you've got experience. I know you're not the one who's coming this month, but it's cool to hear you talk about those experiences. Speaker 2 (08:28): Yeah. Speaker 1 (08:29): What was the training like to become a teaching artist? Was it like bootcamp in the military? Did they make you run through tires or anything? Speaker 2 (08:38): Oh, actually, it almost seemed like that, well, in the middle of my year that I was in the Teaching artist program, basically it's like an eight week. I mean, I'm an eight month course. Well, actually it was an eight week course when I was there. So you weren't really doing much else in the eight months besides, well, it was really just four months that I did it before I graduated because it was accelerated at that point. And you basically learned job skills that would help you on your career of being a better teacher. Speaker 3 (09:19): So some of the things like you learned about classroom management, right? How to manage those kids that want to dance. And I think also maybe worked on writing lesson plans. So what were the lesson plans based Speaker 1 (09:34): On, you need to teach me how to do that. That's a lesson I should probably have learned at a certain point, but just they keep letting me do it without actually having that skill somehow. Speaker 2 (09:48): Well, anyway, writing lesson plans. So I had to develop 12 curriculum Speaker 3 (09:54): Lessons Speaker 2 (09:55): That I wanted my students on the autism spectrum to get out of my art. And some of it was based off of my art, but some was based off of my mentor's art too. Speaker 1 (10:05): Is there anything else you'd like to talk about today, about V N V or anything before we go up into the galleries and look at some art or, Speaker 3 (10:15): I'm doing Double Vision this year too. It's a fundraiser and they help provide fundraising for the next teaching artist program along with other things. Speaker 1 (10:29): Cool, cool. Speaker 3 (10:33): And then there's other exhibitions Speaker 2 (10:36): Throughout the year. I've recently Speaker 3 (10:38): Done the Speaker 2 (10:39): Winter Speaker 3 (10:41): Display, and Speaker 1 (10:43): We should probably kind of explain, you were talking about the exhibition. So V M V has a dedicated exhibition space, correct? Speaker 3 (10:50): Yes, it Speaker 1 (10:50): Does. So where can people go check that out? Speaker 3 (10:55): Well, we do have a website, visionaries and voices.com, and you can see our exhibition schedule. You can also see some profiles of artists. You can see artists work, you can see information about merchandise and things like that. And one of the newest and most exciting things you can see on the website is about our new location. Speaker 1 (11:15): Okay. Speaker 3 (11:16): Called Visionary. And that's over in Oakley Square. Have you been over there yet, Jenny? Speaker 2 (11:21): Yeah, I taught my niece and a couple of preschoolers over there in November Speaker 3 (11:28): In the pop pop class? Speaker 2 (11:29): Yeah, Speaker 3 (11:30): So that's a new location for us, and it is a retail space and then an area where we can have events and classes and things like that. So it's not a studio like the North side and Tri-County locations, but we're definitely doing classes and events. And one of the big reasons for having visionary is to provide a place to give more opportunities for the teaching artists program graduates, Speaker 2 (11:53): Of which there are about 25 now, and another three coming up, more opportunities to teach. Speaker 1 (12:01): Cool. Cool. Well, are you guys ready to go up into the galleries and look at some art? Speaker 2 (12:06): Yes. Speaker 1 (12:07): Awesome. Okay. So does anyone speak Italian? No. That's one of the things I was hoping I would've been okay in French. If we had come up here and there was a French title, I would've been doing better. And Speaker 2 (12:33): I'm learning. I don't believe that. I know only Spanish and French myself, Speaker 1 (12:40): Mainly Speaker 2 (12:40): Spanish. Speaker 1 (12:41): I know French and a little bit of Portuguese, but so we are looking at Frank Stella's, and this is where we have to test our Italian, but we do have a English translation. I'm going to just use my hands a lot when I say it, and then I'll hope that will translate into a good Italian accent, which means jfa and the plaster statue. Speaker 1 (13:15): And I have no idea if I'm saying that name right. It is G I U F A with an X in Tegu, again in French. I don't know what it's called, an Italian. So let's step back and get a good look at this piece where we are all huddled around the label trying to read the Italian, but this is a piece you really have to be pretty far back to get a good look at because it is really big. We took a few moments to look at it. Jennifer, what did you notice when you looked at it or what stuck out to you? Speaker 2 (13:48): It's got a lot of energy in it, real bright colors. Speaker 1 (13:52): What makes you think it has a lot of energy? Speaker 2 (13:55): Squiggles and lines and Speaker 1 (13:58): Yeah, the way it's painted. It's like you can tell the artist maybe made those squiggles with a lot of energy probably, right? Speaker 2 (14:07): Yeah. Speaker 1 (14:08): Yeah. Speaker 2 (14:08): Real bright colors. Pinks and yellows, Speaker 1 (14:12): Right? Speaker 2 (14:13): Reds real hot colors. And then the maroon at the bottom. Speaker 1 (14:18): Yeah, it is all pretty warm colors. It's true. There aren't a lot of cool colors. So we've got this really pretty bright pink on the back. We've got this bright red, we've got those yellows and the maroons like you said, but there aren't any kind of cool colors like blues or greens or purples that you might think of. I guess that maroon is kind of the coolest color on there. Speaker 2 (14:36): That's Speaker 1 (14:37): Something I've never thought about that. I mean, if you had to describe what you were looking at to somebody, what would you even say? Is it, since we're telling somebody who's not even here to look at it, how would you describe this thing? Speaker 2 (14:51): Well, it pops if you, it's the gray with the yellow. The yellow kind of pops the gray, and then there's the maroon kind of pops the red. Speaker 1 (15:05): Yeah, but what are we looking at? Is it, that's the big question. Speaker 2 (15:09): A painting of an Italian boy who goes searching for fame and fortune. Speaker 1 (15:17): You were reading the label, weren't you? Speaker 3 (15:19): And then for some reason he smashes a statue. Speaker 2 (15:22): Yeah, Speaker 1 (15:22): I can't remember. So there is this folk tale it's based on, but it doesn't, I mean, is this a painting of an Italian boy? Speaker 2 (15:31): No, it's a painting. Speaker 1 (15:35): Does it look like anything really? I mean, what does it like Speaker 2 (15:39): It abstract shape, but a smashed statue with a whole bunch of shapes in it. Speaker 1 (15:46): This Speaker 2 (15:46): Might be the boy's head, and then that looks like a pizza shape, and then there's waves going around it. Speaker 1 (15:56): Well, yeah, I mean, even when you called it a painting, that's sort of a thing that's like, is it a painting? I mean, it sort of breaks some rules about that and Speaker 2 (16:05): It's abstract. Speaker 1 (16:07): Well, yeah, I mean, but it's like, look at the painting next to it right there on the wall by Pat Speaker 2 (16:14): Steere. Speaker 1 (16:16): I mean, it's abstract, but it's much more like a painting than this piece, right? Speaker 2 (16:20): Yeah. Speaker 1 (16:21): Why? What's the difference? Speaker 2 (16:23): This piece is more three D and that's two D, but also it's the strokes. Well, I don't know, maybe it's made difference. Yeah. Speaker 3 (16:36): Well that one looks more sort of drippy and Speaker 2 (16:38): Splattery, right? And this looks more like brush Speaker 3 (16:41): Strokes. Speaker 2 (16:41): Yeah. What do you think about, Speaker 3 (16:43): Okay, so that painting is Speaker 2 (16:46): Just a square, right? Yeah. So what kind Speaker 3 (16:49): Shape do we have going on Speaker 2 (16:51): Here? Speaker 3 (16:52): Is it one Speaker 2 (16:52): Shape or is it many? It's many shapes. Speaker 1 (16:55): Yeah. And it's hard to even say. I mean, there is a, looks like a square in there, but it's all the way in the back, right? Speaker 2 (17:05): Yeah. Speaker 1 (17:05): It's almost like there was a painting and now it's kind of come out of the painting and everything's sort of popping out at us, right? Speaker 2 (17:13): Yeah. Speaker 1 (17:14): And also you mentioned the brushy lines, which there are plenty of those, but then there's also these lines and shapes that are not very brushy at all, right? Speaker 2 (17:25): Yeah. Speaker 1 (17:26): The maroon part. Does this kind of look like anything to you in the front? This piece that's kind of the closest to us, I guess it's the most popped out part. Speaker 2 (17:36): Well, that's a cylinder and it's a piece paper, so it looks like a film for cameras and Speaker 1 (17:43): Stuff. Yeah, it does kind of look. That's true. Yeah. It's like we get this kind of cylinder shape you're describing, and it almost looks like the ins are popping off of it. You could crawl in there. It's interesting because it's not all abstract in the way of, oh, this doesn't seem to represent anything. We can get the sense of shapes, and it almost feels very graphic design kind of look of this sharp, black and white, almost like a logo or something. Speaker 3 (18:16): Yeah. Well, I think this piece is kind of a bridge between two different styles of work for Stella in that you see all those perfect stripes, right? That's like his older work prior to this when he just did the black one. So it's very sharp and precise, and then he's kind of collaged it on to this wild and crazy nest of, I don't know, it's lunchtime. I'm getting hungry. I see spaghetti, I see pizza. I see all kinds of yummy stuff up on there. How about you? Speaker 1 (18:53): So I was telling you guys when you arrived that I originally did not like this piece. And I think the reason I didn't like it is that it, because what you're saying, it's almost like there's no rules to it. There's no sense of where the boundaries are of where am I in this? And I guess I probably at the time, I wanted a little more structure to look at, and so it sort of bothered me how it combined two different visual languages, and it's three D, it's two D, it's messy, it's orderly. And then I think I kind of looked at it long enough that I realized, oh, that's the point. That's kind the point. So I didn't like it originally, but I think I've come to appreciate what it's doing. And you like to collage too, don't you? Speaker 3 (19:51): Yeah. Speaker 1 (19:53): Do you feel like you work in a similar way to this? Speaker 3 (19:56): Yeah, I can. Speaker 1 (20:00): When you go about making something, what's your process? Speaker 3 (20:02): Stripes and shapes, and my collages are kind of messy too. They go off of a whole bunch of shapes. I might start out with a whirl, which is round, Speaker 1 (20:14): And Speaker 3 (20:14): Then I might go into a pizza shape. It's into a wave. Speaker 1 (20:23): So you work in a similar way. I mean, it seems very intuitive too. He's just kind of following his instincts of, I think this might look good here. Is that what you do? Yeah. Yeah. When you start off making something, do you make a really careful sketch of what it's going to end up? Or do you just kind of let it all happen? Speaker 3 (20:45): I let it all happen. I Speaker 2 (20:47): Cut up my work in different shapes. I mean, originally the original work is that you can tell what the boundary is, but then when I collage it, you can't. Speaker 1 (20:58): So when you start making another kind of drawing or painting and then you cut that painting up, Speaker 2 (21:05): Well, it's always a drawing. I don't cut my paintings out. Speaker 1 (21:08): Okay, so you start with a drawing that Speaker 2 (21:11): You, yeah. Speaker 1 (21:11): Okay. So yeah, I mean this kind of feels like in that same way where we have a sense of maybe things that were drawn for other purposes. I was talking about these shapes that remind me of logos or something that almost feel cut out of something else and then inserted into here. It's interesting to think about this piece looks so, it looks almost as kind of carefree as when you're working with paper, but of course, because it is so big and heavy and stuff, I kind of realized, well, obviously there's actually a lot more planning in it than you probably can see, or he probably worked like you do on a smaller scale, and then Speaker 2 (21:56): Probably Speaker 1 (21:57): Figured out how to make it a big version of that Speaker 2 (21:59): And Speaker 1 (21:59): Do different things like that, because it's a lot harder to be spontaneous when you're working with stuff that's really big and heavy. Speaker 2 (22:08): Yeah. Speaker 3 (22:08): Do you think you'd like to make something this big? Speaker 2 (22:11): Yeah. Speaker 1 (22:13): How do you think your work would feel different if it was this big? How big is are most of your pieces you make now? Speaker 2 (22:20): Well, collage wise, they're actually pretty small, but the bigger ones are on canvas. But I bet could make things on a bigger scale if I just had a big canvas and pasted it. Speaker 1 (22:36): What do you think? You think those pieces would feel different to the people looking at them? Do you think it would have a different effect on them? Speaker 2 (22:48): Well, it would probably look heavier. For one thing. I'd have to have a pretty big heavy sheet of paper. Speaker 1 (22:55): Well, that's true. Yeah. When you're working big, you want to make sure you're working on something stronger. You don't want Speaker 2 (22:59): It Speaker 1 (22:59): To fall apart as well. So that's one of the benefits of working small is you can be kind of work with more delicate things and they're a little stronger when Speaker 2 (23:08): We Speaker 1 (23:09): Smaller scale. Speaker 3 (23:10): So when you look at this, does this painting make you feel big or small? Speaker 2 (23:14): It makes me feel big because it started out small and skinny, but then it got heavier and heavier and bigger and bigger. So it probably took a lot of strength to moving. And also it would give you courage to work in that scale, Speaker 3 (23:43): Or you would need some courage to work in that scale, huh? Yeah. Well, maybe you should give it a try. What do you think? Yeah, Speaker 1 (23:49): I think that would be great. I think, yeah, you should be inspired to, maybe you can be inspired by this to make something a little bigger than you usually do. It's always when you kind of go outside of your normal comfort zone, you start to discover new things about yourself and figure out how to work in those ways. You'll figure out there's different challenges. Do you still make the marks the way you always made them, or do you have to now move your arms differently? Speaker 2 (24:19): Well, basically I'm a pretty messy painter, so Speaker 1 (24:21): That wouldn't Speaker 2 (24:22): Be a problem. Speaker 1 (24:23): You would just make, well, you would have just even more of a mess now, right? Yeah. That's okay. That's why we have studios, right? Yeah. Speaker 3 (24:34): Is it all canvas or is some of it metal or wood or something? Speaker 1 (24:38): No, I think it is. Some is metal. This is another time when we go look at the label because the label should tell us everything. I mean, I think we have that definitely canvas in the background. So it's Speaker 3 (24:48): Mixed media. So like etched magnesium, aluminum and fiberglas. Yeah, Speaker 1 (24:53): So there's a lot of different materials there. So it says mixed media on canvas, because I think that very base background surface, there is canvas, but then all of these shapes, I think are probably the aluminum and fiberglass that we see. What that's mentioned, making shaped canvases is not super easy, Speaker 3 (25:17): But it looks like it was a, yeah. Well, it's not easy to Speaker 2 (25:21): Work in into Speaker 3 (25:22): Magnesium or aluminum either. Speaker 1 (25:24): No, that's true. Not I know about working on either of those either. Speaker 3 (25:28): I mean, if you look at the side of the canvas, it's like bolts. Speaker 1 (25:33): It's not like Speaker 3 (25:33): It's stapled on there. I'm Speaker 1 (25:34): Kind of looking at the edge of the shape, and I definitely think this looks like metal here. And on the surface it seems a little too flat and shiny for canvas, at least on these first ones. So I'm assuming these are some sort of metal shapes that are popping out here, Speaker 3 (25:54): Or the fiberglass, which takes in more light? Speaker 1 (25:58): Yeah, actually, I like that if we kind of come over here to that cone shape, the big gray cone shape that sort of looks like it's pushing through. That's one of my favorite parts is this edge of this shape that's cut out. That feels like it's almost like corrugated. I don't even know, Speaker 3 (26:15): But it's like corrugated metal or something. Speaker 1 (26:18): And I don't know if that's actually how that edge really would look if it's cut or if it's a little bit of Speaker 2 (26:24): She. Speaker 3 (26:25): It really depends Speaker 2 (26:26): On the material. I mean, the children's saw, it's trying with aluminum, but yeah, you'd have to have almost wire Speaker 3 (26:37): To Speaker 2 (26:37): Even work in that medium. Speaker 1 (26:40): I don't know what they have going on there. The way that's cut out, the way that edge looks, and it's different than the other shapes in there, it makes it feel like we're looking at, this piece has been kind of popped out very, it makes it feel like, oh, this was cut out and popped out of it. It gives that extra layer to it Speaker 3 (27:03): Because Speaker 1 (27:04): You don't see that on the other edges that are cut. They feel very finished, but that makes it feel almost like this wasn't supposed to happen. Oops. Exactly. Yeah. Oops, it popped out. I wonder what the edges, I'm going to walk over and just look to see the edge of that gray cone. Yeah, see the gray cone has a very finished edge compared to the inside where it's sort of popping out of. Speaker 3 (27:31): Yeah, maybe put a thin strip of metal all the way around to Speaker 1 (27:35): Close Speaker 3 (27:36): It in and places. Speaker 1 (27:38): I just now I'm really curious about that inside it actually. Did it look like that, or is that a little bit of intentionally textured to make it feel like something that's been cut away more than it really was? I don't know. Well, any other thoughts you have about this piece, Jennifer or Marion? Anything else you wanted to say about it? Speaker 3 (28:01): Well, I've known this painting for many, many years and I've never looked at it as closely as I did today. Speaker 1 (28:06): Well, that's good. Yeah. Speaker 3 (28:07): I never noticed about those edges before. Speaker 1 (28:10): Yeah. This is one that has, I think, been in the same spot in the museum for probably since the renovation. I don't think it's moved because I think it's just too much trouble to move. I think it's pretty much built into the wall. I don't think it moves. Speaker 3 (28:27): Yeah, it might have to be actually. Speaker 1 (28:29): Yeah, it'd Speaker 3 (28:29): Be interesting to ask the preparers. How much does that thing weigh? Speaker 1 (28:32): Yeah, I think I've been told it is a part of the wall at this point. Basically. It's not just something you not like another painting that you can quite so easily pick up and trade out with another one. Speaker 3 (28:46): Well, that's because the other Speaker 2 (28:47): Ones aren't so Speaker 3 (28:48): Heavy looking too Speaker 1 (28:50): Well. Yeah, exactly. I think that's part of it is it's so heavy that it needs a lot of extra support behind it to keep it up. So that's part of why it's pretty tricky to move. So yeah, definitely the weight of things. Speaker 3 (29:02): Well, I think that you might be discouraged from making a piece as big and as heavy as this, but you could certainly try something. You could use cardboard or really heavy paper and you can get those things that help you pop stuff off. You can build it up so that some of the pieces would be out and be more three dimensional. Speaker 1 (29:24): Yeah, cardboard's a great option because it's thin enough that it's not too hard to cut. And like you're saying, it's light, but you can get really sculptural with it. You can do lots of things. Alright, well, I'm hoping we've inspired you to make some new stuff, Jennifer. Yeah. Well, thanks so much for being my guest today, Speaker 3 (29:43): Both of you. Welcome. Yeah. Thank you for having us. Thank you. Speaker 1 (29:45): Thanks. Thank you for listening to Art Palace. We hope you'll be inspired to come visit the Cincinnati Art Museum and have conversations about the art yourself. General admission to the museum is always free, and we also offer free parking special exhibitions on view right now are Alrich Durr, the Age of Reformation and Renaissance, Ana England Kinship and William Kentridge More sweetly play the dance. In the spirit of today's conversation, we wanted to let you know about Connect a program for adults with developmental disabilities. Each month we explore different parts of the museum on a multisensory tour than create art related to what we see. This free program happens on the fourth Saturday of each month with the next on January 27th from 11 to 1230. For program reservations and more information, visit cincinnati art museum.org. You can follow the museum on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Snapchat, and even join our Art Palace Facebook group. It looks like some of you took my Please to heart and actually rated us on iTunes, but we'd still love more. So keep those five star reviews of Flow in. Our theme song is Horon Mu by Lau. I'm Russell Iig, and this has been Art Palace produced by the Cincinnati Art Museum.