Speaker 1 (00:00):
Coming up on Art Palace, if I were making a shoe, I would have to learn how to be a cobbler and work with the last and manipulate leather. And whereas once I've made my file, I can print it in small scale. Oh, I don't like the shape of that heel. Let me change it. Print another one. Welcome to Art Palace, produced by Cincinnati Art Museum. This is your host, Russell iig. Here at the Art Palace, we meet cool people and then talk to them about art. Today's cool people are Dr. Michael Mamp, associate professor of fashion merchandising and design at Central Michigan University and Matthew Martin, three D scanning professional at exact metrology. This episode was a live conversation with Cynthia Amus, chief curator and curator of fashion arts and textiles. It took place on November 30th, 2017. 

Speaker 2 (01:11):
Good evening. I am Cynthia Naus. I am the chief curator and curator of Fashion arts and textiles here at the Cincinnati Art Museum. And tonight we'll be discussing fashion and technology and art and technology. This connects to our special exhibition, Iris Van Urban Transforming Fashion. So if you haven't seen the exhibition, it's open through January 7th. Make sure that you get up there to see it. The work of ris, who's a young Dutch designer who lives and works in Amsterdam is absolutely amazing. And she is credited as the first designer to send a three D printed garment down the runway. It's not all that she does. A lot of the pieces that you'll see in the exhibition are handmade and hand stitched, and she uses technology as a tool. So it's not once she discovered three D printing, she didn't start three D printing everything. So she still does a lot of objects or her garments by hand. 

Speaker 2 (02:13):
So it's just a fascinating look at someone who's really pushing the edge in terms of technology and incorporating that with fashion. We also have a small installation of six pieces from our permanent collection on view on the first floor in Gallery 1 0 4 called Fashion and Technology. So we installed that to specifically look at to pair with Iris's work, but to look at technology from the past. So we have one 18th century dress and then 19th century dresses that look at advancements in technology in the past. So we look at lace, making, printing, and dine. So if you have a chance to take a look at that. This is this weekend or no, it goes through December. Great. Goes through December. So our original end date was next Sunday, but we have extended that so you have a little more time to take a look at that. 

Speaker 2 (03:12):
So in the S exhibition is open through January 7th, so you have some time to come back and see it again if you have seen it already and to bring others with you. So I'm going to introduce our speakers or our panelists here tonight. To my right is Matthew Martin, who is a graduate of Columbus College of Art and Design. He has a B F A in computer animation, which has led to his specific interest in reverse engineering. He is the division manager for the Cincinnati office of Exact Metrology Incorporated, a three D scanning company with capabilities of scanning micro sized parts to mild wide things. He's also Kenton County Planning Commissioner, and he's been with exact metrology for 10 years. So he's going to be able to give us a broader overview of the industry three D Printing, printing and three D scanning. And then on the far right, my far right is Dr. 

Speaker 2 (04:23):
Michael Mamp. He is an associate professor of fashion design and merchandising at Central Michigan University where he is also an affiliate faculty member of Women and Gender Studies and the director of their fashion and merchandising online undergraduate degree program. He uses three D printing technology, laser cutting, and digital textile printing, both in the classroom and in his own creative practice. He teaches a course titled three D, printing and Fashion that focuses on the creation of jewelry, footwear, garments, and other forms of body adornment and garment embellishment with the use of three D printing. He has also co-authored an article titled The Application of Three D Printing Technology in the Fashion Industry, which was published in the International Journal of Fashion Design Technology and Education, and is lectured at MakerBot corporate offices leading manufacturer of desktop three D printers. His bachelor degree is from Central Michigan University in fashion merchandising and design. He has a master of arts and textiles, clothing and design from the University of Nebraska Lincoln, and his PhD is in apparel, merchandising and design from Iowa State University. So thank you for being here. We so appreciate that. And I also want to mention that the loop of this is just a loop of images that we're showing here. For instance, what you're seeing right now are images of pieces that were created by Michael's students. Is that right? Some 

Speaker 3 (06:11):
Are mine and some are my 

Speaker 2 (06:12):
Okay, great. And there's just a little bit of information about them, but these, you'll say Central Michigan University for the pieces that come from his classes and from his own work, there is a group of images that are from Matthew and exact metrology. So what they're doing, and then there are images of Iris's work that are specifically three D printed. So things that you're seeing in the exhibition primarily that are in the exhibition that are three D printed. So that'll just keep looping through. We might refer to something, but we can't stop and move it around. So I thought I'd start with Matthew just to give us kind of a broader view. And can you just Matthew kind of talk about what exact metrology does, what kind of things you're involved with? Sure. We 

Speaker 4 (07:07):
Do for a service provider for three D laser scanning and reverse engineering. We do anybody that walks in our door, we can provide that service too. So we can scan people, we can scan a piece of hair, human hair, we can scan city, so it doesn't really matter. And then we also work with that every client walks in the door, be it, do they want to take it just to the computer? Do they want to take it to printing? Do they want to take it to market? So we basically try to give a one-stop solution to them and also provide them with the support needed to get to where they're going, be it if they're going to make a casting of their sculpture or if they're going to do animation with it, or if they're just going to print it for reproductive, reproducing the part. 

Speaker 4 (07:55):
So we try to be that support and that service provider for whoever comes in the door. The fun thing being on a service side and not on, if I'm, say I'm a tech for Ford Motor Company and I'm doing all the three D printing, I'm stuck working on a steering wheel or I'm stuck working on a wheel or I'm stuck working on a strutt or something like that, day in and day out when they're working on a problem, I don't know what's going to walk in the door tomorrow and I don't know what's going to be on my email after the discussion. That's the fun part about a service side is we can do anything. I'm not locked into one specific thing Coming out of college, I thought I wanted to do one specific thing and do that day in and day out, but actually doing the service, it kind of fell into my lap is actually opened my eyes to every industry. And that's actually pretty cool. So you're open in public, somebody can walk in the door and 

Speaker 2 (08:49):
Say, I want you to scan my hand. Or for instance, 

Speaker 4 (08:54):
Yeah, now we can scan in color, we can scan in texture, and now you can print in color print and texture. You can get anything and everything printed in any material you want as long as you have the budget for it. So that's kind of the cool thing. That's back in when I started at Exact, we could barely scanning and computer power wasn't where it needs to be. But now today we're scanning extremely quick. We're processing data extremely quick, we're capturing the texture. You're no longer having to deal with that stuff on the back end. You can capture it on the front end. 

Speaker 2 (09:27):
So you're specifically doing scanning, not the three D printing part of it, or 

Speaker 4 (09:33):
Can we do that? We do only have one printer and it's just an AB b s plastic printer. So if you want something else, we can direct you or partner with our suppliers to provide you with that service. No one printer or one line of printers is good at every material, which I'm sure Michael is running into that too. So if you're going to the metal, we kind of will steer you one way or the other. If you want gold, we are going to steer you a different direction. If you want a b, s plastic or poly, we're going to steer you. We're going to do it. So unfortunately I don't have a farm of printers. I would love to, but I don't. 

Speaker 2 (10:10):
So are you sending people to local companies or are they having things, are you sending, because when you three D scan you create a three D model, a computer model or a digital model that then could be sent? 

Speaker 4 (10:28):
Yeah, it could be sent. We can send it locally. If they're wanting to print locally, like global foam up in Dayton can print out huge blocks of foam for full scale sculptures, or we could send it to Cincinnati. We work with them for hand for the children and their families want to capture that and print it out. Something besides plaster. So we'll use Shapeways to be able to give the family a wide selection of materials that they can actually pick from because maybe the aunt wanted poly and maybe the family wants ceramic materials so that they can play. So we try to base where we're going to go based off of, again, just almost like an interview with the client 

Speaker 2 (11:12):
Of, 

Speaker 4 (11:12):
Hey, what you're going to do. 

Speaker 2 (11:13):
Great. So we're just seeing some images now of scanning people and seeing that in the computer. Can you talk about the scanning process, how that works? 

Speaker 4 (11:23):
Yeah, it's usually a structured light of blinking rapidly and you can either keep your eyes shut or eyes open depending on what you like, and it'll take a series of images and you're just mapping. It's using the color and the texture as you're walking around the person, the sculpture, whatever. And it's aligning based off of all of that. So you're not just aligning on unique shapes, you're aligning on color and texture as well. Okay. So we did that. There's a picture of a lady with light hair. Her name's Marie Claude. She called us seven, eight years ago and she had problems getting costumes designed in her unique feature. So she wanted to scan of her body so that she could take her own measurements, make her own costumes. Her and her mom actually do a lot of costumes designing. So she wanted that scan and we're like, oh wait. I was kind of the first person that came to our knocking calling so to speak, and asking us for, we want a human scanned and we can do this now. We can scan color, we can do all this stuff 

Speaker 2 (12:29):
Because you're just using a handheld scanner that's connected to the computer and you're running that over mean, or not even running it over the body, but you're kind of showing it. Showing, yeah, you're just 

Speaker 4 (12:44):
Basically taking almost like painting, 

Speaker 4 (12:47):
But you got to stand standoff and all that stuff. So it's rather quick. We scanned my daughter, we scanned her in about 10 minutes. A firefighter we recently scanned that took like 45 minutes because a firefighter is full of gear. He's got a thousand pounds of junk on him. So we're trying to get in every little nook and cranny to get with the artist. What he needs on a firefighter maintenance guy was like 15 minutes. So just depending on how much detail or what that individual has on kind of dictates the time needed to stay in that pose. That's great. 

Speaker 2 (13:23):
Can you, just because you're in the industry, just kind of talk about kind of basic three D printing and what's involved in that just so that we're sure everybody kind of understands how that works. 

Speaker 4 (13:33):
So once we get a file, we take it to, in the computer, we start cleaning the file up, getting the print ready, be it if we want to add stuff to it to make it a sculpture or if we want to cut that file up into, make it printed three or four different layers in the printing process so that obviously printers have capability limits, size limits. So we have to take that file, chop it up, or we can actually manipulate it. We've with children's hospital, a lot of the plaster castings, they're missing fingers or when they pull it out, it breaks off or maybe one of the other siblings is broken a piece or two off or it gets passed around the family. We can actually digitally basically sculpt that using what we've captured and then the other fingers and basically resculpt it back into the model. So we can repair a model. If it's missing a whole arm, we can use the other arm. We captured it and be able to clone it and duplicate it. Right. 

Speaker 2 (14:32):
So three D printing is basically an additive manufacturing process. So for instance, this piece or a piece of the earth says she's not carving away, you're creating a three-dimensional 

Speaker 4 (14:46):
Model 

Speaker 2 (14:47):
In the computer and then feeding that into the printer, 

Speaker 4 (14:51):
That digital information into the printer that then reads it and lays down, I mean at its most basic lays down layers of material and then binder and material and binder. I know that there are different other methods as well that, and we're dealing, it's not just sculpture humans. We're three D printed, 80% of the airline parts were seeing are three D printed coming to us for inspection needs. So it's not just the arts and entertainment industry, it's everybody. GE aviation, the amount of three D printing that's in the engine and the airplane would probably freak some people out, but it's all printed nowadays. It's all additive. We're going up in the air. Yeah, well, and there's a lot of medical applications as well. Yeah, it's definitely turned to as long now that you can basically print out just about anything in any material as long as you get the process approved, be it the F d A for food or for the medical side. 

Speaker 4 (15:52):
As long as the government's willing and able to listen, it usually gets approved and passed and you can get, prosthetics was a huge thing that kind of started the printing stuff, but now it's actually making teeth a crown or something for your gum and dental. I mean things like heart valves, they're printing, those types of things. Stents. Stents are now, that's interesting. Wow. That's amazing. Yeah, it's almost, it's probably going to be eventually everything is going to additive at some form or the other. Right, right. That's great. So Michael, just to bring you in, what first interested you in combining advanced technologies with what you do 

Speaker 5 (16:43):
Within fashion education? We've always started with a basic sewing machine, a sewing machine, a needle and thread, an iron and ironing board. And I had been aware of the work of people like Iris Van Herin and also Francis Patti and really didn't have any experience with three D modeling or printing, but wanted to learn more. And so I wrote a small grant to buy my first three D printer, and that was approved. And so then I had to learn how to do that. And then I also had the opportunity to, I was supported by my college to attend a workshop that was hosted by Francis Pati who did the somewhat famous Avanti dress that was three D printed and embellished with Swarovski crystals and has done also some collaborations with a couple different footwear companies. But I did a three week workshop with him where I had an opportunity to kind of do an immersive experience with three D modeling and printing, and then went about teaching myself. But I felt that it was important to show our students that, as you said, moving towards additive manufacturing, how would that apply to the fashion industry? And I wanted to find a way to integrate that into our design curriculum. 

Speaker 2 (18:04):
So when you teach a basic class, are you teaching students how to sew with a machine or are you teaching them we can feed this into a computer and come up with a garment? 

Speaker 5 (18:16):
Well, what's kind of fun about the three D printing in fashion is that I teach this course that Cynthia had mentioned three D printing in fashion. And we have both traditional fashion design students and merchandising students in our program. And traditionally, if you're a design student, you learn how to sew, make a pattern, do all that sort of thing. But three D printing or additive manufacturing is really a disruptive process that I don't have to know how to make the garment. I don't have to know how to cobble the shoe, but if I know how to manipulate the software, I can print the object. So I have a mix of both merchandising and design students in my classroom, which also shifts the paradigm of thinking around being an entrepreneur and a designer and what that really means. So we still teach both. We teach beginning sewing and pattern making, but we do have this three D printing component that's a strong part of our curriculum as well. And students funnel through that with or without previous making experience 

Speaker 2 (19:20):
Because a lot of design students, I know this is true at University of Cincinnati, they come into fashion design and they've never picked up a needle or experienced what it is to sew on a sewing machine. 

Speaker 5 (19:31):
It's true. And Project Runway has sort of trained everyone to think about what fashion is and how it operates, which is more of a fantasy than a reality. We love what Project Runway has done for us in terms of exposure, but you're right, students show up without those manual dexterity skills because we don't teach that in high schools anymore. But they're very tech savvy and learning the software for three D modeling is, I think, easier for them than it even is for me. They pick it up very quickly. Right. 

Speaker 2 (20:04):
Well, and it also makes me think, I mean, I know designers who, or have known designers who don't know how to sew, but they can draw a design and so then they hand it off to their pattern makers. So it's that kind of thing. Yeah. What's the reaction with students? Do you have students who come in and say, I want to sew, I don't want to work with technology, or 

Speaker 5 (20:30):
Vice 

Speaker 2 (20:31):
Versa? 

Speaker 5 (20:31):
I would say in general that the students have really embraced the idea. They see it as learning a new valuable skill that might set them apart from other people in the industry in terms of looking for jobs. I know from the visits and the study tours that I do in the field, a lot of companies are integrating three D modeling and printing, if not into the final product that they produce into the stages of the design process. So our students have embraced it, and they're also finding ways to then take traditional garment, making the example that's on the screen, but figure out how to create embellishment for it through three D printing versus using piettes or beads that would've been made through a subtractive process, which is much more sustainable if you're doing it through an additive process. 

Speaker 2 (21:23):
I mean, I think for me, that's one of the interesting things about Iris's work is she uses technology as a tool. It's not the end all be all. It's not, oh, now I'm going to three D, print everything. And when she started doing three D printing, it was hard plastic. It was not material that was easy to wear or that anyone could wear. I mean, it's beginning to change. So are your students using more flexible materials? Are you finding that? So 

Speaker 5 (21:53):
We have 30 F D M fused deposition modeling printers, which are maker bought, and they print in a material that's called P L a Polylactic acid, which is a biodegradable, basically plastic that's also made from renewable resources. So everything that you actually see on the screen is printed in that plastic. But the student could then take this shoe, for example, and send it to Shapeways, which is a three D printing company based in Long Island City, and choose a variety of materials and have it printed in a different printer in whatever material they would like for it to be in. And the students are integrating it into their process. So not only are we teaching them three D printing, but we're teaching them digital textile design and printing. We're teaching laser cutting as well as three D modeling and printing. We're trying to give them sort of a toolkit of technological tools that then allows them to holistically solve whatever their design problem might be. 

Speaker 2 (22:58):
So you have that technology on site or so laser cutting, all those kinds of machines. And how does that work? I know for instance, at University of Cincinnati, and there is the Rapid Prototyping lab. I don't know if people are aware of this, but within the design college there is a rapid prototyping lab and they have laser printers or laser cutting machines. They have three D printers and students come to them with their designs. They are treated like a client. So they come in and they say, here, I want you to print this, or I want to laser cut this. They might help the students do it, or they might do it for the students for a minimal cost. They don't want the students coming in there and kind of blowing up the machinery. I'm just curious how that works at your university. Some of 

Speaker 5 (23:56):
Our processes are centralized, similar to Cincinnati. Our Center for Merchandising and Design Technology is where we also have a body scanner, an air permeability machine, a hot plate tester, a bunch of other, an environmental chamber so that we can test garments in particular environments and humidity. So that's all housed in our Center for Merchandising and Design Technology. And there's a full-time person who works there. And then our three D printing has a website that makes the three D printing available, our three D printing lab available to the whole campus community, not just the fashion students, although it was sponsored by our program. So the student can upload their file, and then we employ a variety of student technicians in the lab and they download the file and check it and make sure that it's ready to print. And then the student gets a message that says, your print was approved or your print was declined based on the quality of the file that was submitted. And then when it's done printing, they get an email that says, come pick up your file. It's done. And I think we charge them 15 cents a gram, which is a relatively small fee for them to be able to print their object. 

Speaker 2 (25:12):
So you mentioned the kind of material that you're using for three D printing is that, I know that there's a powder form where the object is built or you can layer things. What's that process? So 

Speaker 5 (25:29):
What we're doing, F D M, which is fused deposition modeling, the best way to think of it is like a fancy hot glue gun. It's basically taking a piece of filament, a long piece of plastic, feeding it through an extruder that heats it up, and then literally lays those layers down one on top of the other until you have a completed object. The powder process that you're referring to is most typically SS l s, which is selective laser centering. That's using a nylon based powder sometimes where it is sort of taken away from a block and the powder comes off, but then all of that residual powder that comes off of the block is also recyclable or able to be vacuumed away. So we're doing F D M one because MakerBot, which we're in partnership with them in the lab that we have, has made these desktop printers somewhat affordable. It's a good way for the student to be introduced to the technology at a relatively low cost to us, but then they know the software and we model in Rhinoceros, which is our main software that we teach in, once they know the software and how to create the object, they could send it anywhere to be printed in a different material if they wanted it. 

Speaker 2 (26:47):
And I'll just mention that there is a three D printer on site here at the museum. That was one of my goals with this exhibition was to have a three D printer on site so that people could see and understand the process. And so that's in our Rosenthal education Center, and it's running every day that the museum is open. It's running all day long, and Alex, who runs the rec center, starts it up in the morning, and by the end of the day, she has a finished little product of some kind. It's an opportunity for you to kind of see how that process works and understand that additive process that Eris was definitely using. I think that's one of the great things about additive processes is it is all biodegraded material. There's no waste. It, it's very environmentally friendly, which is great. It 

Speaker 5 (27:44):
Is. And not only is it environmentally friendly, but it's so much more conducive to prototyping. If I were making a shoe, designing a shoe via traditional methods, I would have to learn how to be a cobbler and work with the last and manipulate leather. And it might take me a month to make my first prototype, whereas once I've made my file, I can print it in small scale. Oh, I don't like the shape of that heel. Let me change it, print another one. So it speeds up and provides greater opportunity for creativity in my viewpoint, because we're not needing all of the time in between to physically build each model. 

Speaker 2 (28:26):
So I'm just curious, if you three D print something is that, and it's not the shoe that you want, is that material recyclable so you can break it back down or melt it back down or someone can 

Speaker 5 (28:39):
Yeah, this particular filament that we're using is, so even any rafts or supports that come off of the print, that all goes into the recycling bin. 

Speaker 2 (28:51):
And so do you send it off to be recreated into filament? Again, 

Speaker 5 (28:56):
We just send it because it gets recycled with all of the other plastic, plastic, so it just goes to the regular recycling. Oh, 

Speaker 2 (29:04):
That's great. 

Speaker 5 (29:05):
And the student can put it into any recycling bin on campus. 

Speaker 2 (29:09):
Really? Yeah. Oh, that's great. Okay. So Matthew, I know you've talked about some of the projects that you've worked on. Can you talk about some of projects that are a little more art related, perhaps? I know that you were potentially involved in a project here at the museum. We applied for a couple of grants to scan some of our period rooms, which are not on view at present, and we haven't had space for a long time to show them. And our decorative arts curator, Amy Dhan, decided to write a grant to potentially digitally scan our three d, I mean our period rooms, in order to put them online. At least they could be accessible that way. And you were part written into that grant as the scanner possible scanner. 

Speaker 4 (30:07):
Yes. 

Speaker 2 (30:07):
So have you done other things like that? Other things that are involved in art or fashion or 

Speaker 4 (30:13):
Yeah, for Tom Shia here in town, the artist that's on the red statues, he did the new Jesus statue on 75. He did the uc, Bearcat, all those. He comes to us. He's embraced technology in trying to make his process smoother and also make unrealistic deadlines because still as an artist, you got to hit a deadline. So he's kind of embraced that. And he uses us pretty exclusively for his scanning, his latest, he scanned actual humans instead of sculpting 'em out of clay to start out with what he thinks each pose is going to be for the statues, the city that commissioned him. And then that way he can start a full scale replica of it, milled out of foam, and then you can start sculpting it and working on it and eventually get it to the casting and bronzing quicker to meet a, in my opinion, very unrealistic deadline. But artists need deadlines, so it's kind of a catch 22, the period scanning. We have a bunch of different scanners, so we're able to pick and choose what we want and how we want it. We're also, a lot of clients are going to, what you said, the period room where you can view it online. So we've scanned some plaques that'll be available online. If you can't travel to that site, you're able to at least feel like you're at the site 

Speaker 4 (31:39):
In the computer. And the computer is a median to be used for whoever's doing it. Either if it's for the hall of fame or if it's for an art museum or whoever it is, a median that it's available with the power of the internet, power of computers now, power of our cell phones, it is available. 

Speaker 2 (31:58):
Right. So Michael, can you talk about a little bit about your own work? I don't know if your images here of things that you've created that incorporate technology? 

Speaker 5 (32:10):
Sure. What's on the screen right now is actually done by a student of mine that utilized a body scan. So they scanned the model that's wearing this garment in a body scanner and then molded the black piece of that garment, modeled it, and then three D printed it and connected it with the knit piece. In my own work, I've done primarily jewelry and embellishment for garments, but one project that I worked on for a while was these pink or blue and yellow shoes that you've probably seen come up here. So the heel of this shoe was taken from a scan of an 18th century shoe that's in the V N A. So there were a couple of things that I wanted to do. I wanted to show how we could use three D printing to aid in the design process of footwear. And I also wanted to, within the context of historic artifacts, you can't put out the 18th century shoe for someone to pick up and hold, but I could scan it and three D, print it and put that out if someone wanted to get a sense of what the artifact might be like in terms of scale or shape. 

Speaker 5 (33:27):
So that integrated, that scan while also designing the shape of the shoe. And I was trying to get fine detail. One of the patterns was raised and one of the patterns was embossed. It's difficult to get that kind of detail with the type of printers that we have on campus with F D M printers, but I wanted to see how far I could push it. And we got an extremely clean print. So my work is focused primarily on that. And then my students, this is another example of a piece that was done with a body scan. So the model that is wearing this was scanned and this jewelry was made to fit her and then printed. So 

Speaker 2 (34:10):
Are you using body, you've talked about body scanning in connection with what you're teaching. Are students using that for pattern making? So rather than just for three D printed things so they can scan a body and get the exact measurements, we're 

Speaker 5 (34:26):
Really using it across the spectrum. So we're scanning people to get measurements and then using those measurements to draft patterns. We're scanning for three D modeling. We're also part of a project right now where we're scanning just to capture data to understand what size people are and what our sizing standards in the country. So the students have access to the scanner and then use it in a variety of ways, whether they're making clothes in a traditional method or if they're doing something from a three D printing standpoint. 

Speaker 2 (35:03):
So one of the things that I think certainly we see in Iris's work, and that's been changing over time. I mean the first three printed piece that she sent down the runway, and a number of them after that were kind of hard plastic. That's kind of where the technology was. And it's becoming more flexible. Materials are becoming more flexible. Can either of you kind of talk about what the differences in those materials kind, how things have changed, how things are continuing to change? I dunno, back in what was 

Speaker 4 (35:37):
2010 we said when she did that first one, yeah, materials. It was expensive, number one. And number two, it wasn't very forgiving, but it was also becoming more consumer-based. It was becoming into the masses. So then when you put a product out there for everybody to use, it's only going to be pushed. It's not behind closed doors anymore. So then there's going to be people like Iris that comes and says, I want to print something translucent. So it's going to push the supplier, it's going to push three D systems. It's going to push stratus to be able to provide these materials. And I believe with that push and the suppliers, companies willingness to listen to people will only make these materials more readily available. And that's, I think why we all of a sudden are seeing these stuff that's printed nowadays that you can put in your mouth, you can put in a human body, you can use every day. 

Speaker 4 (36:39):
It's because of people, I think like her that are pushing companies and pushing these companies to say, Hey, I want such and such material. I want to be able to print something out of stainless. Why do you want to do that? I can. I'm going to print it out a stainless. So I think that's where a lot of the help has come here, especially if you look at 2010 to 2017, it's only seven years. There's a huge technology jump in a seven year span. Usually you're looking at 70 when you're looking at machining and pattern making and all that stuff. This is seven years for her exhibit up there. So it's come a long way. 

Speaker 5 (37:21):
The kinds of materials, I'll just comment on Shapeways, I use them most frequently. Very user-friendly website. Go to the website, whole list of materials from steel to gold and silver and plastic. People are starting to experiment with three D printing in cellulose. So in wood, our medical school is working on three D printing human tissue. So the types of materials have grown exponentially. And also there are some materials, one in particular Ninja Flex, which we use, which is still a recyclable plastic material, but it has stretch and give to it. So I have a student who's working right now on printing a bracelet that's really sort of taught to the body, but is printed in NinjaFlex, which then also allows us to print sort of components. And it's soft enough that we could stitch it together or that we could put it through an industrial sewing machine 

Speaker 2 (38:26):
Just talking about flexible materials. One of some of the research that I was doing looking at what was going on in fashion in three D printing as this show was coming about, was an Israeli student who decided that for her thesis, she would three D print an entire collection. So I think she did eight, seven or eight ensembles from head to toe, didn't realize how long it was going to take her to three D print, all those things. And so ended up buying a number or getting a number of three D printers and running them kind of 24 7 in order to get done on time. But those things are very flexible, and she created that collection. She's created another collection. It's something that she's interested in continuing to pursue. So the materials are getting more flexible where something like this is basically unwearable by you and me. Well, 

Speaker 5 (39:27):
Maybe you 

Speaker 2 (39:30):
Could come down the runway on a model, but not for normal wear. But the things that this student did are things that could be worn. And in fact, I happened upon a TED talk that she did, in which she said she was traveling, she needed a skirt or an outfit to go to a particular event and created a model and had it three D printed, and she wore it on that trip and had it on for the TED Talk. So it's something that was easily accessible to her because she knew the technology, but also just able to print something up and it was wearable. 

Speaker 5 (40:12):
Well, what's been really cool for me to see with the students is that although we focus on these sort of fashion related projects, they're starting to go, oh, well, we're having a fundraiser and we need a coffee mug. Well, we can three D print those, or we can do a key chain fob, or one of my students printed a vase for me and gave it to me for Thanksgiving to put on my Thanksgiving table. So they're figuring out ways to also integrate what they've learned through these projects into just someday when you need a coffee mug, you're not going to drive to the target store or even order the coffee mug from online. You'll just go online and download the file and print it. 

Speaker 2 (40:51):
Right, right. Yeah. And I guess that's kind of my next thought is where is this going? So for you, what do you see as kind of the next step in terms of the industry? 

Speaker 4 (41:04):
I think it's almost twofold. I think one is the education. I think we're getting hit up a lot for STEM programs in schools where this stuff wasn't in schools. I think you were talking about the grant in high school and pushing it down, going to the elementary schools, going to the high schools. I think that's a big future part because you already got the kids. I just did one last week, and they're like, well, can you print three D, print my diorama project for me? And the wheels start turning. You start turning the wheels at that age. I can't imagine when they're in college, what the wheels are, how they're turning. So I think there's that important aspect that you're opening up these doors and having these kids think like that. And then the other one is I think you're going to have a lot more scanners be able to scan in color, scan and texture, and like you said, print with the tissue and actually you print your own head at home, second head almost. And right now we can scan and color scan and texture, but we're capturing white in the environment. I think once somebody figures out how to capture where it's almost a unilateral light so that you can create the light on your own three D print, and you're not capturing that in the scan, that that's going to be a little bit of a game changer. When you're talking about color, now you're actually capturing true color. You're not capturing environmental color. So that's kind of where I think the pushes are, where it's going to go. 

Speaker 2 (42:33):
Right. Yeah. I mean, for me, I look at what Eris is doing and people look at her work and say, well, nobody can wear that over the top it, it's not practical, but she's pushing the edge, as you said, with that clear printed dress that everybody said it can't be done. It happened. And now we're seeing that as something that can be done, that the technology is there now, working with more flexible materials. 20 years ago, we didn't expect to have personal computers or laptops in everyone's home or the internet in our pocket. I mean, we're on the verge of driverless cars. And I saw a commercial the other day for the Google Mini, those little devices in your home that you can talk to, and they were in the advertisement, they were ordering things from Walmart, and there it shows up on your doorstep. So technology is really changing our world, and I think that three D printing is part of that and is really going to enter our world in a different way. Do you kind of see fashion is going in that direction? 

Speaker 5 (43:56):
I think that fashion is, as the industry actually at times slow to adapt, and that's often related to labor costs and how manufacturing has been sent mostly outside of the country due to labor costs. But yes, and I know that many companies are already, if not looking into utilizing three D printing, as I mentioned earlier, at least as part of their process. So at Shinola, which is an emerging brand out of Detroit, their three D printing models of the watches that designed so that they can see them in real time. But I do think that eventually several of the footwear companies, Nike, Adidas, have introduced three D printed components into their shoes. And so as that continues to develop, it offers an opportunity for the customer to interact and customize. So someone could make a decision about the shape or the size or the embellishment and make that one of a kind. So I do see it as continuing to emerge. 

Speaker 2 (45:04):
And we do see companies, there are some companies online that are your own shoe or the design is somewhat set, but you can play with the colors that you want it to be printed in, that type of thing. There's thing, there's a 

Speaker 5 (45:17):
Really cool one called FETs, F E E T Z. You download the app, you take a picture with your phone of your foot, and then you go online, you design your shoe, it's in a flexible filament, and they print your shoe and send it to you. That's amazing. 

Speaker 2 (45:34):
Yeah. Someday we'll be printing our own clothing at home. Right. Yeah. So I think we're about out of time, but we wanted to leave a little bit of time for questions from the audience if you have any. And Russell has a microphone. He is recording this, the audio for this. So if you can use the microphone, that would be great. Does anybody have a question about three D printing or fashion technology or Iris's work or, so I am curious about the cost of three D printing and if the future does involve three D printing our own clothing will, what we need to use that in the three D printer. Basically the ink, if you will, will that come down in price, do you think? Well, 

Speaker 5 (46:32):
The material that we're printing in for prototyping purposes now, the plastic is very inexpensive, so it's sort of no different than if you go to the store now and you buy the acrylic jacket versus the leather jacket, the acrylic jacket's probably going to be cheaper, but if you print the bracelet in plastic, it'll be cheaper than if you print it in gold. So really, it depends on what material you're choosing to print your object in. And I think that those costs are somewhat constant. So 

Speaker 4 (47:14):
Yeah, I would agree. I think your precious metals are going to be constant, but plastic is probably basically where it's going to be at today. I think it'll be out there for a while. I think it's the speed that going to, you're going to see the biggest gap close. A lot of times people say it'd be on the printer and you think it's going to print it out. You're printing out a book report. And it's not that it's 36 hours, it's 48 hours of constantly sitting there printing. And I think that's the gap that's going to close. I don't think the material cost. 

Speaker 5 (47:47):
Yeah. 

Speaker 6 (47:50):
So my question is for anyone that I was curious if you guys had any experience directly or indirectly with multi-material printing and if you guys see that as either within fashion or the industry in other industries as well as using multi-material three D printing instead of doing individual components that you're then assembling. 

Speaker 4 (48:19):
Mine's only been indirect, so I don't know if you've been, 

Speaker 5 (48:23):
So we have printed a couple of things that had components that then were assembled and the components were in different materials, but we haven't printed a singular object in different materials, mostly because the material that you print in is determined by the printer. So if you wanted to go from plastic to silver, I can't do that in the same printer, but I have printed individual components and then assembled them together in different materials. 

Speaker 4 (49:03):
That would be mine. Mine as well as the printing individual. I know there's printers out there doing the multiple materials, and they're getting pretty dang successful in my opinion. It's expensive, but it's kind of like a four K tv. Eventually it's going to come down and then you'll, it'll be at Central Michigan and Shapeways, hopefully. 

Speaker 6 (49:25):
So there's this technology where you can scan people's bodies. And you were saying that that's used sometimes to gather information on people's sizes. Are there, of the larger clothing companies using that technology to make clothes fit better? I feel like they're not. 

Speaker 5 (49:40):
They are absolutely not. And it's a shame, the study that I mentioned, there's a government-sponsored study that multiple universities are participating in across the country right now, Cornell, central Michigan, I think Iowa State, and I can't remember the others, but it's called Size North America. And one of the things that that study is attempting to address is this disparity in our understanding of size and what that really means. The average American woman is actually a size 14, and yet when we look at the assortment in stores, we're not addressing that consumer's needs. It's so complicated with manufacturing and all of the stigmas that unfortunately continue to persist within what is called the plus size market. And I don't even like that term, but no, they're not. And I worked at Lane Bryant for nine years and have even reached out and tried to build that bridge, but we're not there yet. I hope that we will be in the future. 

Speaker 4 (50:39):
Coming from my experience, it is the same thing. They haven't embraced it, but on the say personal hygiene side on your medical gloves, when you go into a hospital, we've scanned hundreds sets of hands so that they can take measurements of all our hands are different on how to make those medical gloves fit better. How do you make personal hygiene products fit better? We've done those types of scans so that side's been embraced. The technologies embrace the change. Fortunately, clothing, mainstream clothing has not, I don't think in 10 years I've ever had a request from a mainstream lane Bryant. 

Speaker 1 (51:19):
Yeah. 

Speaker 5 (51:20):
What's exciting though is that many of the students that are trying to do their own startups, they are. So they're recognizing that there are holes in the market and are trying to address those holes, whether it be size or gender or whatever the case may be, and trying to use more realistic measurements of people. So I'm excited to see what they'll do in the future with that. I mean, that's exciting about you working with students is they go out into the field either as they graduate or I'm assuming that if they go on a co-op, they're being introduced to that, incorporating this technology into the industry and what the industry is incorporating. They're learning, and so then it's going to become the norm rather than the exception. Yeah. Yeah, which is great. Well, thank you for being here tonight. I hope this was interesting. Thanks for being here. Thanks for having. 

Speaker 1 (52:21):
Thank you for listening to Art Palace. We hope you'll be inspired to come visit the Cincinnati Art Museum and have conversations about the art yourself. General admission to the museum is always free, and we also offer free parking special exhibitions on view right now are Albrook dur, the Age of Reformation and Renaissance Iris v Ur, transforming fashion, Ana England Kinship and William Ridge, more sweetly play the Dance. Join us on January 6th from 12 to 4:00 PM for Family First Saturday Renaissance Festival. This fun and free day for the whole family will feature Renaissance music costumes, scavenger hunts, and art making inspired by our new exhibition, Alrick Durr, the Age of Reformation and Renaissance. For program reservations and more information, visit Cincinnati art museum.org. And while you're there, go to events and programs and then scroll down to Art Palace podcast. We still want to learn about you, so please take our very quick listener survey. While you are there, you can follow the museum on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Snapchat, and even join our Art Palace Facebook group. Our theme song is Efron Al by balal. I'm Russell Leig, and this has been Art Palace produced by the Cincinnati Art Museum.