Speaker 1 (00:00): Coming up on Art Palace Speaker 2 (00:02): Armageddon. That's just the absolute worst because you're not going to fly up and blow up an asteroid that's coming at us because then all the pieces are going to fall the earth and we're all going to die. Speaker 1 (00:25): Welcome to Art Palace, produced by Cincinnati Art Museum. This is your host, Russell iig here at the Art Palace. We meet cool people and then talk to them about art. Today's cool person is Dean Rigas from the Cincinnati Observatory. Speaker 2 (00:46): It used to have that one sculpture that used to be in the front, the very first thing with the Zodiac around the top of it. Oh, yeah. It used to be the first thing you saw, and then it's from Jordan. Once you moved that back, I was like, ah. They're off the astronomy thing now. Oh, I'm sorry. Although it was astrology, so I guess we could Speaker 3 (01:05): That's true or not. I'll Speaker 2 (01:06): Let you slide on that. Speaker 3 (01:07): I mean, you don't do horoscopes as well. Speaker 2 (01:09): I can can all sorts of things for you. The stars tell me everything so, Speaker 3 (01:15): Well, I'm actually, I am already recording, so I guess I'll go ahead and introduce my guest. This is Dean Rigas, an astronomer from the Cincinnati Observatory, and you might've also seen him on Stargazers, which airs here on W C E T, I would assume is probably the channel you probably would catch it on. And you also have a new book called Facts From Space. So Dean, we're going to talk a little bit about you, what's going on, and then we're going to head up into the galleries and I'm going to get your opinion on some artwork. Speaker 2 (01:54): Oh, cool. Speaker 3 (01:55): But from your perspective as an astronomer, I'm curious what you think. So tell me a little bit about the new book. Speaker 2 (02:03): Yeah, so the new book, yeah. It's called Facts from Space, and it's kind of like a kind of souped up trivia book where you can pick up the book anywhere in the chapters and read a couple facts. They kind of standalone as facts. So we talk about the planets, we talk about the moon, we talk about the sun, and then we get into stars, constellations, galaxies, and even beyond to some, my favorite chapter is the last one called Deep Thoughts about Space, where we talk about kind of unanswered questions based on some facts we know. But yeah, it's great for all ages. And yeah, you can pick it up anywhere, put it down anywhere, and then just start it all up again. Cool. Yeah, it's kind of fun little book. Speaker 3 (02:47): So now you've got me interested, I mean, I don't want you to spoil the book, but if you can reveal any sort of these unknowns, give me a juicy one. Speaker 2 (03:00): Well, some of the deeper thoughts that I like to think about are the talks about parallel universes, that that's kind of big now that people Speaker 3 (03:08): Are Speaker 2 (03:08): Talking. There's all these multiverses out there, and so I kind of lay it out logically why that is flawed. Speaker 3 (03:16): Oh, okay. Speaker 2 (03:17): There's a logic to this that we say the universe is everything. Speaker 3 (03:22): And Speaker 2 (03:22): So if the universe is everything and we find another universe, it's part of our universe, it's part of everything. We own it now. So there are no other universe that's Speaker 3 (03:32): Unit part of it. I know. So I'm just being technical, Speaker 2 (03:35): Logical. But there's that one, there's aliens. If they're aliens, where are you going to look for 'em? What's the most likely places? Spoiler. I'd say Europa. But that's something you let people look for. Speaker 3 (03:47): So within our solar system specifically where you're going to find aliens, not just, Speaker 2 (03:52): Yeah, that's a tough one because I've been watching this historically. We have this idea, okay, there's aliens. Yes, definitely. And then we're like, no, there's definitely not aliens. And then there's like, okay, there's aliens on Mars, we know it. Nope, there's not. Speaker 3 (04:07): And Speaker 2 (04:08): So they go back and forth and now it kind of goes back and forth even faster. It's like every few months they're like, okay, there's water on Mars. Okay, good. Then there's these gases that say, these have to be from Lifeform. And then people are like, Nope, they're not from Lifeform. So Mars is an interesting situation. This moon of Jupiter called Europa is an interesting place. And I don't know, I have a feeling that life is maybe a little more easier to find than we thought first, but that's what this century we'll probably figure out. Speaker 3 (04:43): I just realized when you threw out Europa, I was just nodding along. Yeah, of course. Oh Speaker 2 (04:47): Yeah, I Europa Speaker 3 (04:48): Europa. But actually, it's funny because when I was in high school, I was really into all of the 2001 books by Arthur C. Clark, and so Europa is a pretty big plot point in those. So I was just like, oh yeah, of course. Yeah. Speaker 2 (05:07): That Speaker 3 (05:07): Would be where Speaker 2 (05:08): It's very, yeah, of course Arthur C. Clark would know that. That's what's so weird is that that's where he puts the life forms. Oh wait, spoiler, sorry for folks that didn't Speaker 3 (05:18): Having experienced a movie and book series from 50 years ago going on Speaker 2 (05:26): Now. But it turns out Europa is a good place to be looking for life. And so there's a couple other ones in the solar system that are lesser candidates, but the Mars and Europa, yeah, they're up there. It's going to be interesting to see if we find something there. Speaker 3 (05:41): So any other, I'm trying to think of any other facts from space or things that you think would surprise an average person who, Speaker 2 (05:52): Yeah, I think a lot of the facts try to take you there, take you to those places to view the sky. So what's the sky look like on Mercury? What's the moons look like if you're on Jupiter? And so Jupiter has right now 68 moons. So imagine you're on Jupiter and you look up in the sky and see 68 moons. I just try to get people to go there to fly to Saturn and ride around on these ring particles and see a martian sunset and try to explain what that's like because we can't physically go there, but we can take our imaginations there. And that's what got me really excited as a kid when you hear about these missions. And so even though you can't fly on these spacecrafts, you kind of can go there with them. And that's why that's the bulk of the book actually, is to go to these other places and see what the perspectives are. Speaker 3 (06:45): So you just mentioned being fascinated by this stuff as a kid. When did you decide to become an astronomer? Speaker 2 (06:51): Yeah, it kind of picked me. That's the thing. I didn't even think about astronomy as a kid, as a college, high school, I wanted to be a high school history teacher Speaker 3 (07:03): Really. Speaker 2 (07:04): And that's what my degree is from Xavier is in history, and I wanted to teach high school history, and then I was starting my student teaching. Then I thought, okay, maybe I don't want to be a high school history teacher. So then I looked for other jobs. I worked at the Cincinnati Parks doing nature ed and one of the parks, Burnett Woods by uc, they have a planetarium. And my boss was very excited to see me. I said, Dean, you're going to be running the planetarium. I was like, well, I don't know where anything is. Well, you'll be fine. You'll be fine. No problem. And so I had to learn really quickly, and it was just one of those things where I got under the dome and they put the stars on the ceiling, and I just fell in love with the subject. And so I've learned all I could since then, and it's been 18 years now since that day I got converted to the stars. Speaker 3 (07:53): Wow. I had no idea. It was just like, I feel like that's how so many people's, where they end up stories that would go is that it's not exactly what they ever planned on. It's just kind of like, well, this happened and then I just decided, oh yeah, I like this. And you just end up kind of going down these odd paths. Speaker 2 (08:11): Oh yeah, yeah. Well, that's what happens to history majors. They can't find another job. Speaker 3 (08:15): I guess I'm speaking from a fine art major per perspective too. Well, we can say artists too. Yeah. It's like you're like, well, what am I going to do with this fine art degree? You got to stretch your definitions a little bit at that point. Usually. That's right. Speaker 2 (08:27): And that's what I tried lots of different jobs, and it was one of those things where I knew it immediately you feel like, okay, this is the place that, this is what I like to do. It's almost like a religious conversion for me. That's what it was kind of like. It was like I did these other jobs and they were okay, and I thought, okay, well, I'll be a teacher, I'll be a naturalist. I'll be various things. But when that happened, it was like, Nope, this is it. I knew it. I knew it right away. This was the coolest job. Speaker 3 (08:59): How did you get into the TV show? How did that come about? Speaker 2 (09:03): Yeah, so the TV show called Stargazers. So this was something that had been going on for 30 years prior. It was a guy named Jack that was running it. And I always remember Jack because I was watching p b s late at night. It's the last thing they showed before they went off the air. And it's this guy that comes in, he flips through space, he lands on the rings of Saturn. Speaker 3 (09:27): He's Speaker 2 (09:27): Swinging his legs with these really, really poor graphics. Speaker 3 (09:32): And I'm like, Speaker 2 (09:33): Who is this guy? What's he talking about? He's talking stars and constellations and he has a toupee. And I'm like, this guy's a little out there, that's for sure. And he passed away in 2010. And it just struck me as like, okay, so this is the kind of stuff that I do. I don't sit on the rings of Saturn or anything like that, but I talk about stars and constellations and the theme of the show is to get people outside and to view the sky from where they are. And the shows last about a minute. There's one minute version of a five minute version that run continuously all week. And so I just made some calls to the station and they record in North Miami, Florida. And I said, what are you guys going to do at the show? Is it going to continue? They're like, well, we're going to try out some new hosts and we don't really have anybody for next month. Do you want to come try it out? And that was that. Now it's two hosts. It's myself and another astronomer. His name's James. He lives in Florida. And so every two months we record two months worth of shows. Speaker 2 (10:40): So yeah, it's pretty fun. So now I just stand in front of a green screen and pretend that we're in space. Speaker 3 (10:47): Wait, you're not really on that hoverboard. Speaker 2 (10:49): Yeah, I know the graphics are very convincing. I Speaker 3 (10:51): Understand. Yeah, I know. You're really destroying the magic for me. I thought you were flying around in space. Speaker 2 (10:58): Sorry about all those Speaker 3 (10:59): Times. Speaker 2 (11:01): That was one of the anecdotes, one of the cameramen gave me, I said, do you have any stories about Jack Horkheimer? He said, oh, well, I remember this one time Jack was out, and this lady came up to him and shook his hand and said, Jack, oh, I'm so glad to see you're safe. I'm so glad to see you're back here on Earth because they just throw you in space all over the place. I'm really worried for you. Speaker 3 (11:22): And Speaker 2 (11:22): He is like, yes, I'm okay. And Speaker 3 (11:26): I'm sure the effects then were even less convincing Speaker 2 (11:28): Possibly, Speaker 3 (11:29): Yes. Than today. Speaker 2 (11:30): Yeah. Speaker 3 (11:30): Wow. Speaker 2 (11:31): But yeah, so the show, it's aired all around the country on P b s stations. So locally it's on 48 and 14, so you Channel 14 think tv, they run Speaker 3 (11:42): It Speaker 2 (11:42): Also. Yeah. Speaker 3 (11:43): It's probably one of those shows that kids have to watch in school too, isn't it? I mean, probably somewhere someone is subjected to. That's right. Whether they want a science class Speaker 2 (11:55): Somewhere, they have to. Yeah, we hear that a lot of teachers that play these online now, so you can access 'em. You don't have to wait until midnight to watch Speaker 3 (12:03): 'em. Speaker 2 (12:05): So yeah, teachers show them, and I get some fan mail every once in a while and emails from all around the country. So in Wisconsin, apparently it's huge in Wisconsin, Kansas and Nebraska. That's where I get a lot of my stuff from for some reason. Speaker 3 (12:23): Well, I remember a lot of those p b s shows that we would watch in school, and of course, it didn't matter what it was. It was so exciting getting to watch TV in the middle of the day. So it always had this like, Ooh, it's special. So I'm sure too, a lot of, there's some kids out there, it's like, you're the best part of the day. It's like, Ooh, we're going to watch Stargazers now. That Speaker 2 (12:45): Would be cool. I have to ask if that's the case, you think, all right, well, they've got so many other things they could be watching, and we're like, are these two guys flying through space at all? Interesting. But apparently a little bit, we have a couple students locally that are, their parents called and they said, oh, they saw you on TV again. And I was like, oh, yeah, that's cool. That's cool. I like, oh, can we come and actually come to the observatory and meet you? I'm like, yeah, of course. I'm always Speaker 3 (13:13): At the observatory. Speaker 2 (13:14): Really? You'll be there. I was like, yeah, I'll be there and I can shake your hand. Yeah. Speaker 3 (13:20): So you've already got that celebrity status with certain Speaker 2 (13:23): Yeah, I mean with fifth graders so far, with fifth Speaker 3 (13:25): Graders, yeah, Speaker 2 (13:26): I to fifth graders and people over 80. That's pretty much where No, no, Speaker 3 (13:32): No. Those are your fan Speaker 2 (13:33): Base. That's right. That's the fan base so Speaker 3 (13:34): Far. Just got to get that. The rest of 'em right in the middle there. In between what you said just a second ago about the look at the stars from where they are, it just reminded me about something I didn't realize until I was talking with you another time about that the night sky does look different depending on where you are on the planet. Speaker 2 (13:59): Yes. Speaker 3 (13:59): Which seems pretty obvious now to me looking back, but it was just something that I had never considered that if you were in the southern hemisphere, you see different constellations, which is kind of crazy. You just feel like, well, obviously everyone looks up and sees the same stars, but no, it's kind of based on where you are. Speaker 2 (14:17): Yeah. It's not that the constellations are different configurations, like Orion is still Orion. It's just the angles. So the farther south you go, then Orion is upside down, and the Speaker 3 (14:28): Big Speaker 2 (14:28): Dipper, if you go really far south, you can't even see the big Dipper in the southern hemisphere very far south. And so yeah, you get these whole new stars, and so you kind picture it. We are living on a globe, and as you walk down the globe, then you get to see the stars that were down there. So in Cincinnati, we can only see maybe about 70% of the sky Speaker 4 (14:51): Around there, but there's these other, this third of the sky that's down below the horizon we can't even see. So when you go down to Florida, you can see different stars. You go down to South America, see different stars. But the one thing that I do like is that the moon is the moon, no matter where you are. So you see the same moon anywhere on earth. It's the same phase, it's the same size, all that stuff. It just tilted a little bit differently. That's all. But it's the same moon. So whenever, if you're apart from your loved ones or something like that, you'd be like, yeah, look up at the moon. You both look at the same moon at the same time and Speaker 1 (15:28): Sing somewhere out there. Speaker 4 (15:29): Exactly. Exactly. Speaker 1 (15:32): Well, that's a good segue into going up to the gallery. So let's head up and look at some celestial Speaker 4 (15:40): Artwork. Awesome. Sounds good. Speaker 1 (15:41): Okay. We are here now on the third floor of the Cincinnati Art Museum. This is kind of our observatory up here closer to the heavens. So we've come up as high as we can to look at, to gaze at the stars, and we're actually looking at a piece, a contemporary artwork by Ana England called Night Sky Spiral Two. So Dean, I didn't tell you what we were going to come look at. So you are 100%, this is a surprise for you, but what was your first impression when you walked in and saw it? Speaker 4 (16:28): Well, it's quite impressive. I like it a lot. There's so many different things going on it. There's these circles that they're arranged in the spiral shape, and each one of the circles looks to me as an astronomer to have astronomical things on them. So she got that one. Good. I mean, I can actually recognize certain things that are on there. As an astronomer. We got a spiral galaxy on one of 'em. We got some nebulas. We got shooting stars from a meteor shower. And so each one of the circular, they look like kind of circular black rocks. There's this waxy whitish features that, to me, it looks like what you'd see through a telescope, actually. Speaker 1 (17:11): Really? That's interesting. It's interesting because that sounds like in some way, some very precision kind of thing, but knowing how she makes these, that the designs are all created with smoke basically in the firing process that she uses. So the black areas are where the smoke has touched the clay discs, and then the white areas are where something was obscuring it, so sawdust or different, she used to keep the smoke from getting to certain areas. So it's not a super precise method. There's some experimentation in there to create that. But then in a way, it's, I guess there's not a real precision to the way those things happen, I guess, in the universe either. No, Speaker 4 (18:11): No. And so it's kind of the black and white feel of it, the black background with the white of the light of the stars or light of the galaxies or the nebulousness, really. This is, and the fact that there's circles, this is kind of like I'm looking through an eyepiece. That's what each individual one is a different view of different parts of the space, because we get these Hubble telescope pictures with all the colors and the greens and the reds and the blues, but this shows in black and white. This is pretty much what you would see through some really giant telescopes if you put your eye up to 'em. Speaker 1 (18:48): And even the arrangement, the spiral seems to be something you just mentioned, like a spiral galaxy, something that you do see happening in space, that spiral shape. Speaker 4 (18:57): Yeah, I guess if I were thinking, let see, galaxy wise, see, I'm trying to think if this reminds me of any certain galaxy. I mean, there's other pictures of two galaxies running into each Speaker 1 (19:09): Other. I Speaker 4 (19:10): Guess that's kind of the closest that I'd see from this. Our Milky Way galaxy would just be one giant spiral. And so this is kind of two spirals, so it could be two galaxies coming together, I could say. So I'm not sure if that was intentional, but I like the placement of some of 'em. I mean, there's a couple of 'em. I would even say I might venture and guess as to what object they actually are. I can actually see real things that are in space. At least to me, it gives me the impression. There's one that looks like the Orion Nebula right there. There's another one that looks like, it's called the Ring Nebula. There's one looks like Galaxy. There are a couple, I'm sorry, as an astronomer, I can't identify. They're probably fictional, but that's fine. At least they give you the impression of certain objects in space. Speaker 1 (19:58): Yeah, I don't think she was probably trying to go for any actual real places. And Speaker 4 (20:04): I'm super critical of when people try to put astronomy and art. Speaker 1 (20:08): Really? Speaker 4 (20:09): Yeah. Because I'm like, Nope, that's not right. That's not right. They should have consulted me first. Maybe there's a little bit of that, but I'm happy with, it passes the dean test as being, Speaker 1 (20:20): At least that's Speaker 4 (20:21): Least scientifically accurate enough to, I look at it and I like, okay, that's a nebula. I can go with that. And it's beautiful too. Speaker 1 (20:31): Are there things that come up all the time when you're watching movies that just drive you crazy that people say, or tv? Speaker 4 (20:38): Oh, yeah. It's hard to watch an astronomy movie with me. I mean, Speaker 1 (20:42): It's like, wait, wait, what's an astronomy movie? Speaker 4 (20:44): Well, there's the Martian, Speaker 1 (20:46): Stellar Speaker 4 (20:47): Gravity, that kind of Speaker 1 (20:48): Stuff. Oh, okay, okay. I was thinking there Movie's about the Torrid lives of astronomers Speaker 4 (20:54): Or something. There should be some of that's for sure. It's a very exciting life, Speaker 1 (20:57): But okay. Yeah, so I guess a lot of science fiction basically would, Speaker 4 (21:01): Yeah. Speaker 1 (21:03): So what were severe Speaker 4 (21:04): Beefs with the worst ones would be Armageddon. That's just the absolute worst, because you're not going to fly up and blow up an asteroid that's coming at us, then all the pieces are going to fall the earth and we're all going to die. But anyway, Bruce Willis got to do something. Then there's the, oh, shoot, Apocalypto that one where Speaker 1 (21:24): That was the Mayan. Speaker 4 (21:26): So he's about to be sacrificed when a solar eclipse happens, and that saves him again, sorry, spoiler on this one. Too late. But anyway, Speaker 1 (21:33): So solar eclipse, I think we've passed the threshold of spoilers for apocalypto. Cool. Speaker 4 (21:38): So the solar eclipse saves him, and then he's running through the jungle that very night, and it's a full moon, which is complete ensor dick. It's a new moon. Shouldn't be. Anyway, so it's stuff like that ruins movies for me. So you can't watch one of those movies with me. Speaker 1 (21:53): It's so funny. The things that take people out of movies that are very particular. I don't probably have a ton of those, but anything that takes place in an art school and a drawing class, I have the same kind of reaction. Anything about nude model etiquette. Speaker 4 (22:12): Oh, really? Speaker 1 (22:12): Yeah. Yeah. They'd Speaker 4 (22:13): Be like, oh no, they wouldn't be sitting like that. Or, Speaker 1 (22:16): Yeah. I mean, one of the things, I was watching a movie where the nude model, who was this hunky guy, he took his jeans off in front of everyone, and you're like, that's not how it works. They already are naked, and then they have a robe on, and then so the disrobing is a lot less sexy, Speaker 4 (22:33): So Speaker 1 (22:33): They just kind of take it on and off. It's not like, but usually that's the point of having a nude model in a movie is that somebody's going to be like, oh, oh my. And then of course, in real life, you're so over it. There could be nothing. Probably less sexy than figure drawing, usually by the time, and you've done so much of it. Usually Speaker 4 (22:57): I always wondered, well, now the mystique is gone. Thanks. I thought that's how it was. Speaker 1 (23:03): That's my astronomy in movies. That drives me crazy. But really it doesn't come up that often. So I guess I live a charmed life. Yep. Speaker 4 (23:11): Yep. Speaker 1 (23:15): Well, now that was a huge diversion, but that's what I'm excelling. Speaker 4 (23:19): That's all right. Speaker 1 (23:21): Any other thoughts about this? Speaker 4 (23:24): Well, yeah, and I just like the space. We're on the third floor here. There's a lot of light here. I'm glad this space is open again, and I always like to see stuff, how it rotates around here. And so this was in the cafe before, and so now it's up here. I think the spot is a really good spot for it. Speaker 1 (23:43): You know what I was just noticing too that is interesting is the sense of scale that's happening with this because of the disc changing and the way they're kind of organized. And it's cool because they start out, it's like with very small discs at the ends of the spirals, and then get sort of larger in the middle. I don't actually think of those small discs as being literally smaller than any of the other discs. I think of them. It is weird. I think of them as being receding in space and almost, it gives me this the same way that that tiny little star is this huge, actually this huge ball of flaming gas or whatever Speaker 4 (24:31): They could be. They're just farther away. And you get a little perspective on it. Speaker 1 (24:36): So it brings in that idea of exactly that kind of perspective of space and how enormous it is, but how relative it is to our positions as well. Speaker 4 (24:49): Yeah, because all the stars up in the sky are different positions. They just look different sizes based on how bright they are, how close they are. And what would be really cool is if the artist put some infinitesimally small circle in the very center that we can't see, but she knew it was there. That would be pretty cool. I'll have to look closely. I'll go real close to Speaker 1 (25:09): It. Yeah. Well, don't get too close. You'll get yelled at. There's an alarm. But Speaker 4 (25:13): Anyway, I'm just going to assume that. Yeah, she puts something really tiny in there. It's microscopic and Speaker 1 (25:17): Yeah. Yeah, it just keeps going. Yep. Alright, well thanks for coming and looking at artwork with me today, Dean. Speaker 4 (25:24): Oh, this is fun. Thanks for having me. We'll have to try it again. Speaker 1 (25:27): Sure. Thank you for listening to the very first episode of Art Palace. We hope you'll be inspired to come to the Cincinnati Art Museum and have conversations about the art yourself. General admission to the museum is always free. And now we are also excited to offer free parking. We have a lot of great exhibitions coming up. Kentucky Renaissance, the Lexington Camera Club, and its community opens October 8th, 2016 through January 1st, 2017. Van Gogh into the Undergrowth Opens October 15th, 2016 through January 8th, 2017. We also have a lot of great programs coming up. You don't want to miss Art. After Dark into the Hallows Night on Friday, October 28th from five to 9:00 PM and that same night we'll be having Van Gogh's letters, a live performance by Mike Hall and Joshua Steele. And that starts at 8:00 PM. For program reservations and more information, visit Cincinnati art museum.org. You can follow us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and even Snapchat. Our theme song is by, that's KA in Spanish. Be sure to rate and review us in iTunes. I'm not saying you have to give us five stars, but I'll be your friend. I'm Russell Iig, and this has been Art Palace produced by the Cincinnati Art Museum. Speaker 1 (27:00): I.