Speaker 1 (00:00): Coming up on Art Palace, Speaker 2 (00:02): One of my great accomplishments in art, you'll be happy to hear this. It was painting irises on a garbage can that sat on a street corner for many years, and I would drive people by and go, that's my garbage can. Those are my irises. Speaker 1 (00:30): Welcome to Art Palace, produced by Cincinnati Art Museum. This is your host, Russell eig. Here at the Art Palace, we meet cool people and then talk to them about art. Today's cool person is Andrea Shipman, executive director at the Crone Conservatory. So this is cool. So this is the first year you've done this Art of Nature? Speaker 2 (01:00): Yes. Every year we have five basic seasonal floral shows, and so every year we try to make sure that we change it up a little bit. There are some levels of tradition. It's certain times of the year. We always try to include the chrysanthemums in the fall show. Poinsetta is of course, in the holiday show, but this is brand new to us, and this particular show is designed by a young lady named Alison Wallace, and she had a unique challenge in that for the first time we were in installing trains in this show, and she had a completely different idea until we told her There will be trains throughout your show. And so she really ran with us in a way and created this show about how nature inspires us in many different ways and how we see art in nature. Speaker 1 (01:55): Cool. So she had to work around the trains that I'm assuming are going to be there for the holiday. Speaker 2 (02:01): Yes. Speaker 1 (02:02): So you have to already go ahead and put them in Speaker 2 (02:03): Early? Speaker 1 (02:04): Yes. Speaker 2 (02:04): We had a challenge with Applied Imagination is now one of these crazy, wonderfully successful companies that installs displays for holidays all around the world. Speaker 1 (02:16): Oh, okay. Speaker 2 (02:16): So trying to fit us in our specific holiday week of installation this year became a little challenging and they said, well, it's either this week or it's way early. Speaker 1 (02:27): And so Speaker 2 (02:28): We chose the way early and they're installed already, but they've done some really exciting things with the trains. Speaker 1 (02:35): So the trains are going to be a part of the Art of Nature show? Speaker 2 (02:39): They run all through it. Speaker 1 (02:40): Yes. Okay. I didn't know if they were just masked or hidden by they had to work around it, or if they're just incorporating it, Speaker 2 (02:47): We considered that, but then I think we came up with the best option is that people love trains. So Applied Imagination actually made these little train cars. They decorated them and they were inspired by all the different artists that were featuring in there. So we literally have two train cars that are Salvador Dali Speaker 1 (03:09): And Speaker 2 (03:10): One that is like Starry Night for Vincent Van Gogh. And so you'll just, as you come in and you look closely at these train cars, you won't believe it, but they're decorated with twigs and berries and leaves, and yet you can distinctly see how that specific artist inspired them. Speaker 1 (03:29): So what are some things people are going to see when they go to this exhibition? Is that what I don't even, I'm speaking museum language now. What do you call it? Speaker 2 (03:37): Well, crone is a living museum. Speaker 1 (03:39): So Speaker 2 (03:40): Of course we try to use some of that same language. The landscape design, this exhibit Speaker 2 (03:47): Is our fall floral show. So of course you're going to see some of the traditional horticultural things that you would see in there, like chrysanthemums and various types of plants that have fall color and some grasses and some things that we typically see in our own landscape. We know a lot of our visitors are looking for ideas for their own backyard and garden, but then we also find that so many of our clients or clientele and visitors, they want to come and they want to see something different and something fun. So taking this theme and incorporating this theme into the show, as you go around the room just walking through, you're going to see little vignettes around the room and each one of those vignettes is planted in a landscape way that you can clearly see a connection to either a specific work of art or a concept of a certain artist. Speaker 1 (04:42): Are there any examples you can share at this point? Speaker 2 (04:45): Well, at the really exciting one is the first one inside the door on the left, and it is Salvador Dali. And if you think about how his very surrealistic approach to things, we have some flowers floating literally around this, and a pathway that is made out of recycled blue glass that leads up to this center feature. So for me, that's one of my favorite little vignettes. Cool. But then there are spaces around the room. There's also not only just artists that are featured, but this concept of the Fibonacci pattern, the orderliness of what appears very random in nature. There actually, as you look closer, if you look really close as an artist does, you see a lot of orderliness. And the Fibonacci pattern is a mathematical rhythm that if you're aware of it, you can actually discover that in a lot of different plants, the petal arrangements of some flowers like a pineapple where you look at the spiral around it or an agave, how the leaves form this spiral pattern. So we hope that not only do you enjoy the show, but also maybe there becomes a sort of stealth way of learning. As you go through some concepts, you sneak it in. Yes, we do. We try to make learning fun, and so it's becoming one of my favorite shows. Speaker 1 (06:13): So you, I mean, I guess maybe you can't say yet, but do you plan on doing it annually? Do you think it's going to be a tradition or you're just going to see how it goes? Speaker 2 (06:21): Well, we'll see how it goes. The idea of having the trains in there, what I'm really afraid of is that people may come back and say, we want trains all the time. Speaker 1 (06:31): Yeah, Speaker 2 (06:33): Just Speaker 1 (06:33): Get rid of the plans and just make it a train. Speaker 2 (06:35): Just the Nick Crow train. It's a train show. Yes, conservatory. It's kind of like that with butterflies. We feel like people are still coming to find out if the butterflies are still there. And we definitely try to do that just like in spring through early summer. Speaker 1 (06:51): And Speaker 2 (06:51): So you never know. Speaker 1 (06:54): Well, yeah, this is really cool because it's going to cross over our own sort of flower event. So it's kind of cool that we have this synergy to use a sort of businessy buzzword going on between what we have, especially since we're neighbors here in the park. But Art and Bloom, which is our big popular fundraising event, is kind of the exact opposite. So where you're making sort of art out of flowers, we sort of represent our art through flowers and floral arrangements. So it's like we're each taking each other's normal jobs Speaker 2 (07:33): And turning 'em on their head. Yes. Yeah. Speaker 1 (07:35): We're each kind of doing each other's thing for a second. So yeah, it's kind of a cool thing. And I know we get a lot of people for Art and Bloom. It's super popular that weekend, so hopefully some of those folks will come see Art and Bloom, and while they're up here in the park, can go over to the conservatory and visit the Art of Nature. So that's a really cool idea to have those two going on at the same time. Speaker 2 (08:00): Well, as you said, we're neighbors, and I think anytime we can collaborate to try to do something that draw people here to more than one location, it works well. Speaker 1 (08:08): Yeah, and I mean, I think people do that already. I know my family, I would have a be off on Christmas vacation, be hanging out with my family, and then they would go, oh, let's go to the conservatory in the museum on, oh, gosh, gee, boy, just what I'm going to do on my day off, go to work. Speaker 2 (08:28): I know the same feeling Speaker 1 (08:30): And I walk in the door, and of course, immediately people start asking me questions. Speaker 2 (08:34): Yes, Speaker 1 (08:35): Russell. Russell, do you know where this, oh gosh, I need a trench coat and sunglasses for those days. Speaker 2 (08:41): Exactly. Speaker 1 (08:43): I'm sure it's worse for you. Nobody, you don't walk in. Do they hand you a watering can? Speaker 2 (08:49): No, but I know there's always challenges. There are always things and people have questions that maybe I've been with the parks, I've been at Crone for 34 years, Speaker 1 (08:58): So Speaker 2 (08:59): When somebody has a question, like a plant question, even though that's not what I do day to day anymore, now that I manage things, they still come and find me. And they're like, well, nobody else seems to know about that. Speaker 1 (09:10): Oh yeah. Or Speaker 2 (09:11): People stop by who used to work for parks or they know me because they used to volunteer. Nobody else knows them except for me. This happens Speaker 1 (09:21): If you hang around in a place long enough, that's it. You kind of tend to be like, oh, you've absorbed this information, you become the institutional knowledge, and you've got that memory still. So everybody was going to come to you Speaker 2 (09:37): At least, I hope. So Speaker 1 (09:39): How did you start? What did you start? What was your first job with the parks? Speaker 2 (09:42): Well, actually before I got to the parks, I have a degree in horticulture and I taught school. I taught 11th and 12th grade horticulture classes. And so from that, I came to work for the parks. So my first job was actually working at what is our production greenhouses out in Finneytown, Speaker 1 (10:01): And Speaker 2 (10:01): It's called Water Nursery. Water Nursery. Is that behind the scenes space? We have 10 greenhouses that I still manage that greenhouse. I have folks out there that take care of the day-to-day, Speaker 1 (10:12): And Speaker 2 (10:13): We have a background place where we can grow flowers that then come to the parks. And so that's where I started from there, just because my goal was always to try and incorporate some form of sharing information Speaker 1 (10:30): About Speaker 2 (10:31): How wonderful this place is and how wonderful these plants are. I've always been real interested in how the plants are used, what other things about these plants that people don't know about the natural dyes that we feature in this or other uses that people have used through history. And so trying to incorporate a little bit of education into the programming here has been a big goal of mine. And I guess I've just been here long enough that now I'm the boss. Speaker 1 (10:59): Yeah. You just wait around long enough. This kind of thing's happen. So how many people overall work at the conservatory at the Crone? Speaker 2 (11:09): Well, not as many full-time people as you would think. There are about six of us there. Six? Speaker 1 (11:15): Yes. Speaker 2 (11:16): In comparison to your staff. It's really, oh Speaker 1 (11:19): My gosh. Speaker 2 (11:19): Everyone else is seasonal. And this is a challenge for us that we need to have a little more stability in staffing with seasonals. It changes sometimes even two and three times a year, one position. Speaker 1 (11:34): Some Speaker 2 (11:34): Of our positions are being held by two people that kind of share a job and it is ever changing. So as managers, our core knowledge and how we can share that becomes so important. Speaker 1 (11:48): Yeah. Do you have a lot of volunteers too? We Speaker 2 (11:50): Do. We do. During Butterfly Show alone may have up to 600 volunteers. Speaker 1 (11:55): Oh my gosh, Speaker 2 (11:56): Yes. Speaker 1 (11:56): Okay. Speaker 2 (11:58): I know half of Cincinnati just through volunteerism. Speaker 1 (12:03): Wow. Yeah. I mean, we have a lot of volunteers, but we don't have 600 I don't think at any one point certainly. That's crazy. Yeah, that's just to compare. We have probably, when it comes to full-time employees, probably about a hundred roughly. And then you add in security and you add on another a hundred people. So it's about 200 people roughly, give or take. I'm not hr, so I don't have those hours right off the top of my head, but that's about what it's at. Yeah, Speaker 2 (12:34): The conservatory is part of the Cincinnati parks. So of course there are times when we have to lean on our other park employees to bring people in, such as during show change, when we're hauling all of this material out and putting a completely new show in a very short period of time. A lot of the field staff that take care of other park areas will come in and help, and that is absolutely necessary. That's part of our team when it comes to that job. But on a day-to-day basis, it's rather slim. Speaker 1 (13:05): Yeah, I I actually sort of did assume, I'm sure it's a smaller operation than we are, but I just thought I would never have thought six. That's insane. So I mean, now I'm just fascinated by the way this works. So what are those different jobs? What are the very fundamental things you need? Since there's only six of them? Speaker 2 (13:28): Well, there are three florists, or that's their title. And basically you could call them the horticulturists because their job is they come in at six o'clock in the morning in between six and 10:00 AM when we open. They're going to be watering, cleaning, replanting if needed, just checking in on plants, and that is all they do along with show design. Their jobs are pretty tight though with that, because of course, we're covering seven days a week, 365 days a year. You can't really let things go for even a day. There is no automatic watering in the greenhouse, so it makes their job a very full day. And so along with that, then we have the management team, and we have somebody who does cleaning facility work and stays there for security. Speaker 1 (14:19): Actually, when I made the joke about the watering can in my head, I thought like, oh, I'm sure they have some high tech system or something. No, Speaker 2 (14:27): No, not at all. Speaker 1 (14:30): It's an old building too, isn't it? Speaker 2 (14:32): 1933 is when it opened, and most, the majority of the display space is 1933 space. There've only been a few things that have been modified or changed since then. And yes, it is all hand watered. We have a high pressure fog system, which was probably in the most recent high-tech thing that we got. It's really great because we have a lot of things like orchids and mimis that will thrive more on air humidity, and that humidity is really necessary, and it's somewhat cuts down on a heat level as well. Speaker 1 (15:07): Okay. Oh, that's nice. Speaker 2 (15:08): But 1933, that means that our building also has a lot of art deco, stylized little, if you look in the floor patterns where the terrazzo floor is, there are little decorations in that. The metal railing, the original facade of the building is now kind of behind the bathroom. So that was added on so that we have public restrooms, but that inner wall is all etched glass, which is all done in a beautiful art deco motif. And so that's what I love. I love that it's a historical building and love these little things that are there. Speaker 1 (15:43): How much has the space changed since, I mean, I know the structure is roughly the same, but that design of that middle area, has it been through any major renovations or? Speaker 2 (15:56): Well, if you look at really old photos of that core, the palm house area that goes down to the waterfall, you see that when it was first planted, it was planted in a very symmetrical and very formal way. So everything, if you have a palm on this side, you have another one on that side. All the way down to the waterfall was kind of that central feature. And you can see the plants are much smaller. Over the years, we've intentionally tried to get away from that formal approach, not very natural. It's not like it would be in a rainforest, and so now you're going to see a more naturalist type of approach, and she Speaker 1 (16:40): Just knocked over a Speaker 2 (16:41): Microphone. I'll not move my Speaker 1 (16:42): Hands anymore. Speaker 2 (16:45): That's embarrassing. Speaker 1 (16:46): Not the most sturdy stand to begin with, but Speaker 2 (16:51): So we've tried really hard to plant things in a more naturalistic way, particularly in those areas where the collections are planted in those areas. Then once the plants are in there, we try not to really change it created maps that go along with it. Speaker 2 (17:06): And so unless a plant is giving us problems, most of the time it will stay in those areas. We have added in some things like the Bonai collection, and that came about as part of a collaborative effort, and in the last 15 years, we've created this wonderful collection of bonai, which is a nice addition, but it is being stored in an area that when I first started, we actually had a little production space that was off limits to the visitor. So if you had some plants that you had to take care of that didn't look so great, or if you had something you wanted to propagate, you could do it there on site. Speaker 1 (17:45): Well, Speaker 2 (17:46): We started doing butterfly shows about 22 years ago. All of a sudden, the amount of people and the one-way flow required us to make all of that display space, and so with that display space, then we had to have something to fill it. The Bonai collection was a perfect collaborative, and so that's also a great addition. And then in the sixties is when the desert collection, that house on the back of there, that was actually an addition that was not part of the original plan there. Speaker 1 (18:20): When you're talking about the butterflies, it made me kind of think we have loans and art that comes in and things we have to work with, but I don't think we have anything quite so livid. I don't know. That's such this weird thing we don't have to deal with is a living creature Speaker 2 (18:40): Really. I have huge respect for people at the zoo now that I have had to do this, because this is a very different thing. The plants are living, but usually they're in the same place that we put them in and they're not likely to get up and walk away. So escape is not really something we have to worry about with butterflies. It brings on a completely new level of watching guarding, rearing the responsibility of having a living creature like Speaker 1 (19:13): That Speaker 2 (19:13): For day-to-day care, and it's amazing how much work it is that go into raising butterflies for this. Speaker 1 (19:20): Oh, I'm sure that's crazy, Speaker 2 (19:22): The cost, the time factor of it, but it's probably one of the greatest things we do. Oh, Speaker 1 (19:29): I'm sure. It's the most popular, certainly, right? Of Speaker 2 (19:31): Course. Speaker 1 (19:32): Yeah. Speaker 2 (19:33): 90,000 people, what? Yes. Speaker 1 (19:35): Oh my gosh. Speaker 2 (19:36): Just for that short period of time. So it's huge for us. Speaker 1 (19:40): Yeah, that's huge for anyone. I don't think anyone's going to sneeze at 90,000 Speaker 2 (19:47): When I think about the women's restroom that only has three stalls and you think of 90,000 people coming through. I'm wondering how many times they flush. Speaker 1 (19:59): All right. Well, I thought we could go look at some flowers in the collection if you're Speaker 2 (20:03): Oh, I'd love that. Speaker 1 (20:04): Awesome. Well, let's go. Speaker 2 (20:05): Okay. Speaker 1 (20:19): All right. So we are in Gallery two 13, which is kind of a weird space because it's called two 13, but it's actually almost like multiple, it's two hallways with the same number that are on either side of the special exhibit space. So if you want to come find this, if you kind of know where the Folk art show just was or where a lot of the other special exhibits are in that big main space, it's right before you get to that. It's on either side of it, and it's a hallway where we often have prints and works on paper, on display, and I wanted to come look at these today because we don't actually get a chance to talk about prints a lot. They are like flowers. They're fleeting, and they can only be on view for just a few months at a time because they're sensitive to light. Speaker 1 (21:13): Actually, a big chunk of the museum's collection is prints and photographs and things that are light sensitive. So these things only appear for a short period of time, and then they have to go back into storage. So right now we have this little show called In Bloom, floral Prints from the Permanent Collection. So I thought this would be perfect because we have tons of flower images to look at, and we're just going to kind of check out a bunch of 'em. We might not talk about everything, but I just wanted to see what stuck out to Andrea as we walk around. Speaker 2 (21:49): Well, this is a beautiful hallway, and of course it is an area just where after my own heart, all the flowers in here. So the one we're looking at right now with the Queen, it's called Queen Ann's lace, and just one of my favorite flowers, one of the nature flowers, the natural things that you'll find out in the woods, and it's also an edible flower. Did you know that? Speaker 1 (22:11): No, I didn't. So Speaker 2 (22:13): My older sister, we were growing up, she went away to a camp and she came back so excited to tell me how they'd cut Queen Anne's lace. They dipped it in some type of flower batter, and then they deep-fried it and ate it. Speaker 1 (22:26): What? Speaker 2 (22:27): I'm like, okay, those flowers are way too pretty for you to eat, but still it's quite exciting to find out something else about a flower. Speaker 1 (22:36): I think I was, when you said it was edible, I imagined it sort of being on top of a beautiful cake and not sort of fair food. Deep Speaker 2 (22:45): Fried. Yeah, deep fried, fair food. But it's healthier that way. At least it's not a twine in there. Speaker 1 (22:52): Yeah, I guess that's true. If you're, if you go up to the fair booth and your choices are like Twinkie, Oreo baby Ruth or Queen Anne's la Queen, Speaker 2 (23:02): Go for the Queen Ann Lace, you're clearly Speaker 1 (23:04): Making a wiser decision for your health. Well, this print is really interesting in the artist's name. I'm going to massacre here because it looks like, I'm going to guess Yosef Doon. Oh boy. That was a, I don't know if that was, it's Hungarian origin artist who's working in the United States, and so it's really interesting color, really kind of dark blues and greens in the background, and then the parts of the blossoms are much lighter, but they still have this faded kind of yellows and primary colors behind them, Speaker 2 (23:46): And such an intricate little pattern here with that woodcut just cutting all through there because Queen Ann's lace has a very feathery kind of foliage and then a very intricate feathery, almost lace like flower, Speaker 1 (24:01): And Speaker 2 (24:01): So they've captured it really well. Speaker 1 (24:03): Yeah, it works. It is sort of such a graphic flower that it works really well for a woodcut where you have to think in kind of black and white almost, because you're working in just the plate when you're making it. There is no, the block, I should say, there is no shades of gray. It's just black or it's white, Speaker 2 (24:25): Right? Speaker 1 (24:26): And so they've got all sorts of really interesting, I don't know much about this artist or how they work, but it looks like when they ink the blocks, it's not a totally consistent inking probably, and they probably maybe are mixing colors on top of the block is how I'm guessing some of this is made. It just looks like there's a lot of blending going on that you wouldn't expect in a woodcut, Speaker 2 (24:54): But it's really neat because as you look beyond the flowers, it's almost like you're looking into the darkness of a little woodsy area, Speaker 1 (25:02): And Speaker 2 (25:02): Then the flowers sort of stand out on the top of that. Speaker 1 (25:06): Yeah, it does. It has a lot of, all the different layers create this kind of depth of a dark woods kind of feeling, but then there are these little magical colors that Speaker 2 (25:17): Pop out Speaker 1 (25:18): That maybe are not exactly totally natural, but it's a real cool feeling to them. All right. Well, we can keep moving on down here. Speaker 2 (25:28): Okay, well, this one is just called the Flower. Speaker 1 (25:30): Yeah. It's by Fernan. So French artist, it's pretty typical of, I mean, this is one when I walked by, I kind of knew it was a right away just because of this real thick outlines. We have another painting by him, a couple galleries over that's trees, and it's also against this kind of orange color too. So it's kind of cool that they have this, it almost looks like a bunch of bananas. Speaker 2 (25:58): Well, it kind of does. It's not a really specifically identifiable flower for me, but still it has all the things that are there between the petals that come out and then the core part. Speaker 1 (26:13): Yeah, it might be imagined. The fact that it is just simply called the flower suggests that this maybe is not based on any one specific flower, but Speaker 2 (26:24): Leave that to our imagination. Speaker 1 (26:26): Right. But again, also, let's see, this is from 1952, so we're, it's a pretty good example of a very modernist treatment of a flower, and I almost think of, it's sort of like you're looking at the building blocks of everything You see there's the thick lines and everything's broken down to its really basic elements here. And also there's a lot of what we would say is non-local color too. It's like, okay, probably this flower, if you saw it, would not be that green color, but the artist is sort of like, maybe it's more interesting if it's that green color. We're just able to look at it as this sort of different just flat shapes and the way things are kind of put together when he draws people, they kind of look almost like mannequins or something. Their arms and stuff don't look like they would really move around, or if they did, they would almost feel like one of those Halloween cutouts on your door. It's almost like they look very hinged together in some way. Again, everything feels very constructed toge for me. I don't Speaker 2 (27:41): Know. Did you say that is a particular style? Is there a name of that style of art? Speaker 1 (27:50): I mean, I just said it was part of modernism in general. I can't remember if really belongs to a sort of specific school or movement, but a lot of times we talk about modernist as being constructivist in that it's actually kind counterintuitive and that it's kind of breaking things down, but to see how they are constructed. So you set out to paint a flower, but your goal isn't necessarily to end up with something that looks like a straight representation of a flower, but more about the things that are kind of making up that picture. So yeah, Speaker 2 (28:34): That's a nice one. I kind of like the idea of this, and looking at the name of this one here, they call it water lilies. Again, it's not a Speaker 1 (28:44): Specific Speaker 2 (28:44): Representation. It's very, Speaker 1 (28:46): Yeah, and this is from 1960, so a few years later than the last one we looked at, and I like that. This is the artist's Krishna in ready from India. So already you can kind of tell from just the first few pieces. This is a very international look at flowers, which I really love that we're kind of getting all these different cultures, interpretations of flowers over a period of time. But yeah, it's even much more abstract than, Speaker 2 (29:15): And it's not just a plain wood cut. There's a combination of, Speaker 1 (29:20): Oh boy. Yeah, Speaker 2 (29:21): Different things there. She did some etching and then the engraving and then Speaker 1 (29:26): Gouge, Speaker 2 (29:26): Gouge Speaker 1 (29:28): Going to Speaker 2 (29:28): Guess. I Speaker 1 (29:29): Don't know. She Speaker 2 (29:29): Went through Speaker 1 (29:30): Something. I don't actually know what gouge is, so this is a little too inside printmaking even for me. So, but I'm really fascinated by the idea of how does this relate to water lilies to you? Speaker 2 (29:45): Well, of course, the colors, Speaker 1 (29:47): You have this Speaker 2 (29:48): Kind of blue, but I think what I'm imagining that I'm looking instead of looking across a pond as though we would with Monet, this is more like my mind that I'm standing over the top of it, looking down on it. So a lot of what you're seeing is little sparkle reflection off the water, Speaker 1 (30:07): And Speaker 2 (30:07): Then maybe kind of an impression of where the flowers might be in that pond water. Speaker 1 (30:14): Yeah, I got the same idea too. I think I had the same feeling about the way it definitely has a sense of reflection and things that surface that blue area, the way it changes really rapidly from dark to light, and there's all these little rippling shapes. You definitely think of that as a very watery surface. And then we have these sort of three bursting shapes on top of it that are white, and they have these little bits of red and yellow in them, and the way these kind of beams almost are above and below again, that it does make me actually think of Monet's water lilies, just in the fact that they're all kind of about reflection and you're looking at things kind of reflected upside down. And so in this one, it's a little hard to tell almost what is up, what is down. Speaker 1 (31:04): It doesn't really give you anything to ground yourself with as much. But those Monet water lilies do always make me, I think they're very abstract actually, when you look at them, because you're looking at so much of the reflection. You're looking at the world upside down, and so it just turns into shapes and colors, and they're always kind of about being a little disoriented. So to me, this piece just makes you go one step further with that disorientation. It's definitely a very, I don't know, it makes you think of more the sort of, you were saying the feeling of those things, the water, the flour, and not so literal. This is almost an exact opposite feeling here, Speaker 2 (31:50): Right? Yeah. Speaker 1 (31:51): This is a Giacometti, and it's just called bouquet too. It's very simple line. Giacometti's kind of known for these really sketchy drawings. He did often of faces and bodies, but actually probably even more famous for these sculptures of these kind of really skinny, spindly people. Speaker 2 (32:22): So that's what we're seeing in the background. There is in the behind it, there's a person, a body that Speaker 1 (32:29): Portrait. It looks like it's a drawing or a painting on the wall that he's just getting the hint of a portrait there. But yeah, it kind makes sense. His things sometimes have this sort of skeletal feeling where he's kind of getting the bones in there. This one's actually not overly a lot of his, he just keeps going over the same areas with these lines until they kind of become a spider web of stuff, and you get a little bit of that in certain parts of it, but actually it's pretty restrained. It's pretty straightforward Speaker 2 (33:01): For Jackie. Well, it's amazing that even with the limited number of lines, you can still tell that that's a vase and flowers and the flowers are kind of all drooping sort of hanging. So it has very few lines in order to create that. So every line has an important place in that drawing. Speaker 1 (33:20): Yeah, it's actually, it's a really nice thing to look at, and it's a good lesson for economy of drawing almost where you have to, it's one of the things I think people struggle with when they sit down to draw a scene is they want to draw every little thing. Speaker 2 (33:37): That's me. Speaker 1 (33:38): My Speaker 2 (33:38): First drawings were like, I was trying to be, and I was so worried that the lines weren't completely straight. Speaker 1 (33:44): Right? Yeah. This would be the exact opposite of that, where he's just capturing the quick essence of those things and not worrying about the details. The rule of thumb when you take drawing is usually you work general to specific, so you start with the big picture, you make sure the big picture is what you want, and then you work on the details as you go. So it's really, a lot of times it's a matter of when you say stop, right? Yeah, Speaker 2 (34:15): Exactly. Exactly. Speaker 1 (34:18): He does a lot both. If you think the flowers are very undefined, it's like, look at the background and what is suggesting this space, Speaker 2 (34:26): But you can still tell that that's a wall and maybe the end of a room there that you're looking at in that little alcove there and a table setting that it's on top of possibly. Speaker 1 (34:36): Yeah, I mean, we were talking about the painting on the wall that you saw right away. So yeah, you get those sort of little hints of architecture of a doorway and a corner maybe, and it's not that specific. You couldn't say, oh, I know exactly how this room is laid out, but you get the sense of space and you get a sense of how far away this table is from that wall and with very little, Speaker 2 (35:03): Yeah, I think there's six lines there that define that wall, and we can tell, and they're not even full lines, so it's pretty amazing. Speaker 1 (35:11): Yeah, I mean, so when you just kind of stop and think about, oh, this really not a lot of, you're getting a lot of message with not a lot of work, actually, which is kind of impressive. Speaker 2 (35:24): It's amazing. Speaker 1 (35:25): Yeah. What's here? This is, Speaker 2 (35:28): Oh, I could tell right away as we walked up, I was getting butterfly, the butterfly image. See the wings of the butterfly? Speaker 1 (35:36): Oh, yeah, there Speaker 2 (35:37): Wings and then flowers. Three carnations. Speaker 1 (35:39): That's funny. I did Speaker 2 (35:40): Not, I love that. I Speaker 1 (35:41): Would've had to have read that. You must be much more butterfly sensitive. Speaker 2 (35:46): I guess my first thought was, okay, or did it get placed in the wrong gallery because it's a butterfly? Speaker 1 (35:52): Oh my gosh. Speaker 2 (35:52): Then I realized it's the flowers that are on top of it. But Speaker 1 (35:56): Again, we have this sort of break from reality in that obviously the scales are all off here. If the butterfly, this is a real butterfly, it would be on top of the flowers, not the other way around. Speaker 2 (36:11): That's right. That's right. Well, we've been through so many years, 22 years of trying to design graphic motifs to represent our butterfly show Speaker 1 (36:21): Every Speaker 2 (36:21): Year. It's something different that I think I've seen almost all the combinations of how you can take those four wings and Speaker 1 (36:28): Two Speaker 2 (36:28): Antenna and put them together every Speaker 1 (36:30): Way you can do it. Speaker 2 (36:31): This is quite stunning, and the red border on it really makes it pop out. Speaker 1 (36:37): Yeah, I didn't say the title. This is Butterfly with Three Carnations by Ivan Mosca Italian, and yeah, you just have this, and at first glance, it almost looks like a sheet, or that's what I think I saw it as with more was some sort of cloth or something kind of folded. Yeah, Speaker 2 (36:59): I was kind of thinking of Madam Butterfly picturing a person inside of their, Speaker 1 (37:04): Oh, yeah, lean forward. Well, yeah, even actually the shape of it is kind of related to a kimono or something, so that might be where you're kind of going with that, because that very square shape of the kimono really cool piece. I love the composition too of these two carnations on one side, and then this one just diagonally across is really interesting. We're going to cross over to the other side. Alright. And I said we're not going to have to look at everything, but we have been, so I'm not going to make you do this anymore. I'm just like, what pops out to you over here in this little section? Speaker 2 (37:41): Actually, this one, the poppies popped right out, popped right out before when we came by. I recognize the seed heads and the poppy flowers, and it's minimalist in what it is, but I just love how it looks like a bit of a watercolor kind of color over the flowers. So the only part that is painted or colorized are the flowers, and in the rest of it being black and white, I really like that. Speaker 1 (38:11): I don't know if it's watercolor, but it says it's hand colored etching, so it very well might be, or some kind of thin paint Speaker 2 (38:18): Has that technique Speaker 1 (38:19): That Speaker 2 (38:20): Look like. Speaker 1 (38:21): Yeah, it definitely looks like that. I mean, whatever they used it is definitely, it's a very thin washy paint because you can still see that black line underneath it. And I love the way that it works against the stems, and you call them seed heads, is Speaker 2 (38:41): That these are the little seed pods, Speaker 1 (38:42): Pods Speaker 2 (38:43): That have formed after the flowers become pollinated. Then you've got your little seed pods. Speaker 1 (38:48): It's kind of great too. Sort of gross. Speaker 2 (38:53): Yeah, they're Speaker 1 (38:54): Really kind, alien looking and kind of hairy, and Speaker 2 (38:58): The fact that this is what they do in nature is they just sort of, as the flowers finish, then the seed heads, the seed heads come down, and then the stems are thin to begin with, and then they just start to kind of fall over. Oh, Speaker 1 (39:12): Okay. Speaker 2 (39:12): So they're kind of capturing the movement of those as they go through these stages. Speaker 1 (39:18): Yeah. I love the way the line, the stems and everything are so black and white. It's so harsh line based, and then when you get to that flower, it's just this little lovely bloom of color. So it is got a nice contrast of that. I don't think it's an accident. And then I kind of said, oh, they're kind of gross, because I think it's kind of about that contrast of this that color makes the flowers seem so much prettier in this little, these kind. I love those shapes that they're just so kind of awkward too. They're Speaker 2 (39:57): Kind of clumsy Speaker 1 (39:58): Looking and just kind of awkward and just kind of gangly. Speaker 2 (40:04): Yeah, but still it's nature. Speaker 1 (40:07): Yeah, they're like an awkward 13 year old, right. That's Speaker 2 (40:11): It. Exactly. Speaker 1 (40:12): That's me. Speaker 2 (40:14): That's where I was. So many different styles here as you go through. I don't think there are any two that are really of the same kind of style. Speaker 1 (40:25): You do get very just flat graphic styles. We're kind of walking Speaker 2 (40:29): By, Speaker 1 (40:30): And Speaker 2 (40:30): I think this is also one of my favorites here, which the Chrysanthemum, it sort of fits with the chrysanthemums of the fall show and the seasonal, but the way it's represented, this a Japanese artist, and this is that texturing, that little glittering behind them, which is typical sort of, is this done on, Speaker 1 (40:55): It's a screen print. Speaker 2 (40:57): Sometimes they do it on a textured paper or even on a cloth when they do things. And Speaker 1 (41:03): Yeah, this is, it's Speaker 2 (41:04): Really nice. Speaker 1 (41:05): Yeah, it does have actually, now that you say that, I'm looking, and it's got actually metallicy kind of flex in it, which I didn't notice at first. And it's interesting. This is one of the latest ones we've seen so far. So this is 1986, which is interesting just because in some ways it looks, at least at first blush, it looks so traditional. Speaker 2 (41:29): Yes, yes. Speaker 1 (41:29): I mean, it could be a woodcut from several years before this, you would've believed that. So it has this very traditional look, but then even when I saw like, oh, it's a screen print. That's something that's a little newer that's not as traditional. Speaker 2 (41:45): Typically it would be inked, right? Speaker 1 (41:48): Yeah. A lot of wood cuts are pretty common, or you might see lithographs too, but this is definitely in the composition of the flowers at the bottom and all this sort of open space above them is a very Japanese composition, and this really tall format too. It's kind of full of drama. But I love a lot of the very traditional Japanese artists, so good at not being too worried about filling in space, just letting, and sometimes people will refer to those as pregnant voids, where you want to have, there's sort of bad voids and art where you can have just dead space, but then it's a pregnant void. It's empty, but it's full of meaning and it's, it's actually, it's activating the stuff below so it knows what it's doing. That's spaces very, very purposeful. Speaker 2 (42:45): So I've grown these flowers before, and they're typically more like what we call a football mom that you have in a prom time or something. But these single stems, each one of those flowers requires you to pinch all the buds along the stem to put it on a stake, and it's very painstaking to grow them. So each blossom holds weight because of what it takes to get to that blossom. So not only is art, but from the horticultural standpoint, it's pretty amazing. Speaker 1 (43:21): That's great. Let's kind of keep walking down. See anything else over here pop out to you. Speaker 2 (43:28): I like this one. It's a different look as well. This Speaker 1 (43:33): Is called Sunflowers against a Green Ground by Edna Bo Hopkins, and this is, we're back in time a bit now. This is actually, surprisingly, this is one of the earliest things we've looked at yet, and it looks so kind of, I mean, I don't know if I would've said, oh, it was from yesterday exactly, but, Speaker 2 (43:53): But I think in sixties, seventies, it has all that color that comes out and just that mix of colors. Speaker 1 (44:02): Yeah, it's kind of like, I mean, I think when you said sixties, it's got that kind of flat psychedelic color look that I think I would've thought the same thing. And it's from actually 1915 or 16. So Wowza, this is pretty out there, pretty crazy for somebody just really pushing the envelope and the colors are just so extreme, Speaker 2 (44:27): Still vibrant, but you could see probably where just having it on display for a long period of time, you'd be worried about the color kind of fading on that Speaker 1 (44:36): In Speaker 2 (44:36): Spots. But that's a very nice, I love sunflowers, Speaker 1 (44:41): And it's also of Speaker 2 (44:42): My favorite flowers. Speaker 1 (44:43): Again, kind of like we're talking about that sort of not being too worried about literal color or local color here. It's like that sunflower is bright red Speaker 2 (44:54): And then the blues and the kind of purple-ish brown in the center part Speaker 1 (44:59): Of Speaker 2 (44:59): It. It's more of a concept of color in there that maybe it's a reflective color Speaker 1 (45:05): From Speaker 2 (45:05): All the seeds that are in there. Speaker 1 (45:08): Yeah, it's definitely, I'm glad I stopped to look at this. I mean, I walked by and was like, oh, that's cool. But I hadn't actually read the label to see what year it was from, so I was very surprised to see that as well. I love this one. This is another Japanese print, and again, it's 1955 or kind of hopping all over the 20th century, but I love the way her shirt, her blouse, the striped, incredibly graphic black and white is mirrored in the stems behind her. Speaker 2 (45:43): And then the blue irises that just kind of pop in around that, frame her as the subject in there. But irises are one of my favorite flowers, and they're challenging. Speaker 1 (45:56): Why? Speaker 2 (45:57): Because there's a lot of parts to them. So you've got the upward parts of the flower petals, the downward parts that are growing, and it's multiple petals that put it all together, Speaker 1 (46:10): And Speaker 2 (46:11): Every single iris is different, but this is really pretty. Speaker 1 (46:16): Yeah. Yeah, it's very simple. Iris, are they ever white like this, or are they, Speaker 2 (46:24): I think not very often. You'll get, there are some white viruses, but Well, it depends on what type of virus, so to go for a technicality, but this might be more the reflection Speaker 1 (46:36): Or Speaker 2 (46:36): A little bit of striping that is exaggerated to get the effect of it. Speaker 1 (46:42): Yeah, that's what I was thinking. I was like, because typically kind of like a purpley Speaker 2 (46:46): Blue Speaker 1 (46:46): Or, well, Speaker 2 (46:47): I have one variety that's called Batik, Speaker 1 (46:49): And Speaker 2 (46:49): It actually has splotches of white and they're randomly all over it. And then, well, then there are different types of iris, and so there's the big giant German iris or the little Siberian iris that are very petite. This one, this isn't really a specific iris, it's more of a concept of an iris, I think. Speaker 1 (47:10): Yeah. Well, yeah, and the scale of them looks like, again, kind of a hint that we are not in necessarily the world of scientific realism. It's just a emotional suggestion almost. It's almost like it feels almost psychological or something about we're kind of getting more of an insight into her head more than What's the environment necessarily? Speaker 2 (47:36): Well, I'm not really an artist, but growing up I took art classes and one of my great accomplishments in art, you'll be happy to hear this, it was painting irises on a garbage can that sat on a street corner for many years, and I would drive people by and go, that's my garbage can. Those are my irises. Speaker 1 (47:57): I love that idea. I was so proud of my Speaker 2 (47:58): Irises. Speaker 1 (47:59): I love that. It's on a garbage can. That's great. Speaker 2 (48:02): This one, the rot dendron in the greenhouse. Speaker 1 (48:04): Yeah. This is kind of the very last one here in our little mini exhibition. Speaker 2 (48:10): This is a Russian artist. Speaker 1 (48:12): Yeah, so another name. I'm not going to even try. Oh my gosh. Maria Marvia. And then we get into the real tricky last name. Ja. Speaker 2 (48:24): That was good. I would've guess that's exactly it. Speaker 1 (48:28): I don't know. I usually write these out in the show notes so you can read it. Speaker 2 (48:35): So these rends in a greenhouse, you can see the containers. It has a lot of lines and a lot of swish colors washes throughout it, but the splashes of color where the red are just really stand out on the background. Speaker 1 (48:55): The red is just really obviously just pops out right away. Especially it's up against that kind of cooler blue that feels like the leaves are around it or just, and you're kind of hinting at the, it's really brushy feeling. The ness gives it this a lot of motion, even though it's a still life, we're looking at just a flat, just this flower sitting there. It could have felt very dead, but especially just these little lines in the background are full of motion. And even the ones that are in that blue area below the plants or the pedals, and it's all very kind of up and down too. It's very vertical. And then, Speaker 2 (49:46): Well, the lines of the greenhouse here, which are blue in this, but probably more silvery in real life, but the blue lines there create almost like a little framing, and then there's this splash of color from the plant over the top of that. Speaker 1 (50:01): And I love that you just assumed it was a greenhouse. Speaker 2 (50:04): Well, it says it in the Speaker 1 (50:05): Potato. I didn't assume it. I thought we were getting an insight into you that you just automatically, you're just a better, Speaker 2 (50:13): Yeah, you're Speaker 1 (50:14): A better visitor to the museum than I am because you actually read labels. I'm just like, I just assumed it was a window. It was on a window sill. I hadn't read that. You Speaker 2 (50:25): Can tell I spent a lot of time in a greenhouse. I start seeing, Speaker 1 (50:28): Well, that's what I thought. With no walls everywhere, you just saw them as, but no, you're actually, yeah, it does say rend in the greenhouse. In the Speaker 2 (50:36): Greenhouse, yes. Speaker 1 (50:37): She's actually doing the homework. I should have done. Speaker 2 (50:39): Well, I really like this one. I like the flow of it. And as you said before, there's a lot of movement to these flowers, so you kind of feel like they're actively growing in there. Speaker 1 (50:51): Yeah, it feels very much alive. That's a tricky thing sometimes to capture in a still life of plants is to give it that sense of life. And it definitely feels very active. And I love the way, this is another one that the print, by being made up of all these different layers of color, it also, it gives it this kind of vibration because you can see where those colors are laying on top of each other and you get the hints of other colors where they're not being covered up and those little hints of those edges. And again, it's another thing that makes it feel very active, I think, are those little places where it's not quite perfect. Speaker 2 (51:37): Well, in planting a landscape, which is probably something I have a little more experience with in choosing colors, we try to choose colors that are color opposites Speaker 1 (51:45): And Speaker 2 (51:46): Sometimes put them next to each other because it does, it creates that vibration in the landscape of things. And I'm feeling the same way with this. There's a lot of what color opposites that make the red and the yellow just pop right out there. Speaker 1 (52:00): Yeah, because there's all this purple color that's made up of this can tell. It's made up of a separate blue and red. It has this almost like three D. You're looking at an old three D movie or something without your glasses on. It's, Speaker 2 (52:20): And then the kind of wash of the gray back in the background where it leaves a little strands of white coming up. It gives the feel that that's glass, that is, you're looking through a window, a little reflection. Speaker 1 (52:35): This is a great thing too. I mean, one of the reasons I really do love drawings and works on paper, and one of the things that is to me exciting about this stuff is that the paper itself is so important that you see the paper. And a lot of times when you're looking at a canvas with an oil painting that's completely covered in paint, you're not actually seeing any of that canvas. You're just seeing the light hitting the paint and reflecting back to you. But with works like this, you're seeing the light go through the ink hit the white of the paper back out through to you, and so it has a certain kind of glow to it that I think is just really great. And when artists use that well, it makes those white areas without anything on it just feel so much more magical to me. I don't know. It's kind of glow. Speaker 2 (53:30): My older sister teaches art, and when she's taught me how to do watercolor, she's always trying to warn not to cover everything from the get go yet. That's my, and I always regret it afterwards, I think, oh, and you can't go back. Speaker 1 (53:44): Yeah, no, because you want, that's like, that's where the light comes from is the page, Speaker 2 (53:50): And Speaker 1 (53:50): So it's all about a relationship with the page and understanding what is going to be covered and what isn't going to be covered and how you're going to use it. But yeah, that's Speaker 2 (54:00): Where the skill really comes in. Speaker 1 (54:02): Yeah, that's exactly what working with watercolor is about. It's all about knowing how to get those kind of reflections that feel like light to come right back through that white paper. So this artist is doing such a great job. I can't actually tell if I think even this white on top might be printed. I can't tell because it looks a little bit like if you look at the border, it looks a little bit brighter to me than the areas on the edges, Speaker 2 (54:33): But I'm Speaker 1 (54:33): Not sure. Speaker 2 (54:34): Yeah, Speaker 1 (54:35): I could be wrong sometimes. They've gotten so much color out of these plates. I don't know even how many plates there are. It's like, obviously there's red, obviously there's probably two blues like this lighter blue. I mean, I'm not sure. Yeah. Speaker 2 (54:56): And then well, then there's a yellow, and whether that yellow actually had to come before some of that red, because you can see it's almost like popping through holes in the Speaker 1 (55:08): Red Speaker 2 (55:08): Flowers. Speaker 1 (55:08): Yeah, it looks like the red is printed on top of some of the yellow to give it that. It probably makes that, so actually, the red in the flowers is probably the same kind of pink that's underneath those plants, just minus the yellow because they're using, it's kind of like how commercial printing works where you're dealing with a C M Y K, so you've got a magenta color that's mixing with the yellow to create that really intense red, just like in commercial printing. Well, thank you, Andrea, for looking at these prints with me today. Speaker 2 (55:50): Thank you for having me here today. This has really been a lot of fun. Speaker 1 (55:53): Yeah, I've learned so much about flowers. Thank you for listening to Art Palace. We hope you'll be inspired to come visit the Cincinnati Art Museum and have conversations about the art yourself. General admission to the museum is always free, and we also offer free parking special exhibitions on view right now are Ana England Kinship William KenRidge, more sweetly play the Dance and Aila ka aga. All the flowers are for me. Join us on Sunday, September 24th for a special gallery experience where we will meditate on Aila AGA's. All the flowers are for me with Stacey Sims. Join Stacey for this one hour experience that will involve guided meditation and slow looking practices. Speaker 3 (56:41): For Speaker 1 (56:42): Program reservations and more information, visit cincinnati art museum.org. You can follow us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and Snapchat. We just started a Facebook group for Art Palace, so come join our Cool Club. Our theme song is, oh, frond Music, Hal by Backal. And as always, please rate review us and subscribe on iTunes. I'm Russell Iig, and this has been Art Palace produced by the Cincinnati Art Museum. I.