Speaker 1 (00:00): Coming up on Art Palace, Speaker 2 (00:02): All artists should put hangers on the back of all of their artwork before showing up with your artwork to be installed. Speaker 1 (00:23): Welcome to Art Palace, produced by Cincinnati Art Museum. This is your host, Russell iig. Here at the Art Palace, we meet cool people and then talk to them about art. Today's cool people are some of the artists of employed a staff art exhibition. This interview was part of our in Conversation series and was recorded live on January 19th, 2017. I led the conversation and was joined by Aaron Guyman, PJ Grim, Larry Malott, Samantha Hayes, and Denise weRock. Speaker 2 (01:01): If you haven't been up to see the show, I think you should definitely check it out, but I'm guessing probably most people here have already seen it and we're lucky enough to have five of the artists speaking with us. And I thought we'd just go down the line at least first and just have everyone introduce yourselves and let people know, a, what you do here at the museum, and B, what is in the show, what kind of work do you make? Speaker 3 (01:27): My name is Erin Guyman. I am the design and marketing assistant here at the Cincinnati Art Museum. I have three photographs in the employed show currently from my series. I can see right through you, Speaker 2 (01:43): PJ Grim. I'm a preparator here at the installation department, handle the artwork and do stuff like make mounts and do stuff like that. My pieces are kind of hard to describe. I work with newspaper and cement and smash it all together and see what I can make. They're sculptures. Yes, I would say that's maybe one way to describe it that I would, some are flat though. Maybe not. Just like you've never seen anything like it, unlike anyone. It's like, you know how some art is flat? Mine isn't. It's sculpture. It's flat dish. All right. Sorry, I've already interrupted one version. I'll try not to do this again. Speaker 3 (02:23): I'm Sammy Speaker 4 (02:23): Hayes. I work in the gift shop Speaker 3 (02:25): Here, and I have Speaker 4 (02:27): Two printmaking pieces in the show, one of which is a Speaker 3 (02:31): Combination Speaker 4 (02:31): Of screen printing and Speaker 3 (02:32): Installation. Speaker 4 (02:36): My name's Larry Malott. Speaker 2 (02:37): I work in design and installation. I'm also a preparer and I do exhibition design as well. I have a piece in the show. It is a costume. I do costume Speaker 4 (02:48): And performance. Speaker 3 (02:50): My name is Denise weRock and I work in security here, and I have paintings and drawings in the exhibition. Speaker 2 (02:59): So I wanted to just start by asking you guys some basic questions about how working at the museum has affected your art or has it affected your art. So I guess that'll be my first question. Has the museum affected the things you're making in any particular way? And we don't have to go down the line again. Anyone can start not all at once though. Yeah, it definitely affected the way I finished my artwork. Being in installation and handling artwork and what it takes to get artwork on display on the walls or whatever you need to do with it. It really makes you think about that when you're producing your own artwork and you're like, well, who could potentially ever be touching this or trying to deal with this mess that I'm creating now. And so I do think differently on how to finish the final product. Anyone else? Speaker 3 (04:02): Yeah, I'd say it's definitely influenced my art making as well. I started around my junior year of college and I could just see my work getting better with constantly being surrounded by the artwork in the galleries, and it just helped me produce at a quicker level and just really inspired my work making. So yeah, Speaker 2 (04:23): I definitely agree with PJ as far as influence that's had the process that you go through hanging a show, but also the materials that we use, just the attention to detail. And then thinking about also the future storing, moving, handling artwork. And I guess I'm kind of curious about the flip side of that. Is there anyone who maybe has had, is there any sort of negative reaction, almost discouraging to be surrounded by amazing art? I could see that having almost like a, ugh, how am I expected to achieve this? Speaker 3 (05:06): Not that it's necessarily discouraging, but I sometimes find it's difficult to find the work life balance between working here and working on my own art as a photographer, specifically somebody that still shoots film. I know I have 15 rolls of film on my bookshelf that I just haven't been able to afford to get developed. So for me, that's put a little bit of a pause on my art practice. But still, I think being here and being surrounded by all of this artwork is just really enriching and having these rotating exhibitions. We recently had a photography exhibition and I found that incredibly inspiring, so it's just driven me to go out and make more pictures. Speaker 2 (05:47): I was kind of curious about everyone's relationship to the collection. I grew up in this area and I was curious how was this a new discovery for you when you started working here? Or is this something that you've been engaging with your whole lives? Speaker 3 (06:03): I've been coming to the museum. I remember coming in well in grade school, and I've just, throughout the course of my life, tried to spend as much time as possible here. So I think that having this resource that I'm here when I'm here, I can on my breaks, go and walk through the museum and especially when the etching show was here, that was amazing. It's super inspiring to be around it. Speaker 2 (06:37): What was amazing about it for you? Speaker 3 (06:39): The etching show in particular. At the time I was doing a lot of etching. I've sort of moved over to screen printing now, but just the level of detail and the range of values that they get in their work. And the best part of it was having the magnifying glasses and you could go around and look at the little lines. It was so exciting. Speaker 2 (07:04): Anyone else? Yeah, no, I grew up here too, and my mom had me at the art museum always. So I've always been surrounded by this stuff. I remember the period rooms that don't exist really anymore, but I get to see them still because I get to go into storage and go and see all that fun stuff. So I remember things and I'm like, Hey, I used to be over here where the Rookwood is now, and I'm telling all these people who were too young to be around for the period rooms about them. Yeah. So now I'm curious. I didn't even think about that. There are period rooms still stashed, but I assume, how do you see them? Basically in pieces or, yeah, kind of nicely arranged, but in their racks. Kim, do I have to cut this out? Speaker 2 (07:56): Everything's stored. Kim. Kim is covering her face. Are you going to get an angry letter? Do I have to? We have a conservator there too. Our storage is too, I'm not saying, I know it's not going to be lying in on the floor. I'm just curious how one envisions a room when it's Well, no. Yeah, it's unreal because when it used to be a three-dimensional thing you could walk into, now it is in a row. Oh, wow. Stacked like panels. That's kind of great. Imagine each wall being its own piece of artwork and then it being put into a rack next to the next piece of artwork. That sounds actually really great to see it that way actually. That's kind of really cool. I don't know. I could imagine that being almost an interesting art piece in itself to see that the way it's range that way. It could be for sure. So anyone else have any sort of, I guess we talked about mostly positive experiences. You had one sort of work-life balance. Anyone else find that being at the museum, being surrounded, working with art makes it actually hard to make art? Speaker 4 (09:02): I'd say there's always a struggle of time when you're at work, you can't create, but the inspiration that you get from being around and seeing behind the scenes. But yeah, it's always you have to work to make time to create. Speaker 2 (09:23): So what was your, I can't remember. Did you say your relationship? Are you from this area, Larry? Speaker 4 (09:29): Yeah, Speaker 2 (09:30): Originally. Speaker 4 (09:30): Yeah. Speaker 2 (09:31): So you've been familiar with the collection for a long time too, Speaker 4 (09:34): Right? Yeah. And seeing the museum as before working here, everything's kind of a mystery. You don't realize how big, how much artwork there is that isn't out. And that's one of the things that we get to see all the pieces that are in storage. And so it's kind of magic place in that sense working Speaker 2 (09:59): Here, Speaker 4 (10:00): And that's always positive. Speaker 2 (10:05): What about you, Denise? Speaker 3 (10:08): Yeah, I grew up in the area and one of the memories I have with coming to the art museum is I was in elementary school, I want to say late elementary, like fifth grade. And I remember just coming on a tour here and then after that, I hadn't been here for years. I just kind of, art wasn't really an interest until really late high school and early college. But I do remember seeing the Andrew wife painting upstairs, and that actually became a big inspiration for me now is kind of the work I create and the ideas I have around it. So I guess that's kind of the influence that the museum has had on me in the past to present kind of sense. Speaker 2 (10:48): Why do you think that particular painting stuck out to you? Speaker 3 (10:51): I don't know. I remember just the storyline around it when the docent was talking about it, and it just stuck out to me when my first day here when I walked in the gallery as a guard, I remember that painting and it just kind of stuck with me ever since. So I think there's a mysteriousness about it that really draws my attention. Speaker 2 (11:11): That's interesting because thinking about the work you have in this show, it seems very home-based or tied to a location that's actually seems similar to that painting. So that's kind of just thinking about that domestic space seems something you're interested in. I don't know which came first, but Speaker 3 (11:32): Yeah, exactly. And I think it's just from seeing that all the time, it's a lot of my ideas stem from his work, which I've dived into a little bit more and just interior spaces. Yeah. Speaker 2 (11:45): So Aaron, did you say, I can't remember, did you grow up and have a relationship with the collection in the same way too? Speaker 3 (11:51): Yes, I did. Yeah, I grew up in Cincinnati and I've been coming here since I was a kid. I think one of the most memorable exhibitions that I remember coming to see was the Dadan Realism exhibition. I think I actually came on the opening day and the closing day of it. I loved it so much and just kind of seeing all of those works. I've always been very interested in art history and specifically 20th century art. So seeing all of those pieces just absolutely blew me away. And I remember going, I went to college shortly after that exhibition, and definitely it sparked my interest to study those topics. And I don't think, without seeing that I would've been so interested in those forms of art, specifically dadada, I feel like Speaker 2 (12:32): Why dadada, Speaker 3 (12:33): Just I think it's fascinating. I think Duchamp is one of the greatest artists of all time and his audacity to say, Hey, this is a ready-made sculptor. Because I say that it's a work of art for me that's just art can be anything. And that inspired me to feel that way. Speaker 2 (12:49): Do you see any kind of, that's really interesting. I wouldn't have, I don't know, just because I think the work you're making as a photographer doesn't seem right, Speaker 3 (12:56): Very different. Speaker 2 (12:57): It doesn't seem different, but at the same time, is there much of it at the same time? There could be a connection between that because Duchamp saying, I point my finger at this thing and say it's art, and you're saying, I point my camera at this thing and say it's art. And really that's a struggle that photography had to overcome in a way, in its early days being recognized as an art form. Is that, well, anyone can do that, right? Speaker 3 (13:21): Right. It's just hitting the button, but it's a lot more than that. And I don't know. I had a really influential artist talk when I was in college by Richard Rinaldi, who recently, I believe showed some work in relation to photo focus in 2014. And oh, I forgot my point. That's great. Speaker 2 (13:44): Okay. Right. Speaker 3 (13:46): Oh, he referred to instead of taking pictures, it's making pictures. Speaker 2 (13:51): It Speaker 3 (13:51): Is a very simple semantic change, but I don't know, it influenced me a lot. You are consciously framing everything in a specific way and you consciously making decisions of what you were including and excluding from a photograph. And that's the difference between an art photograph and maybe just a snapshot, Speaker 2 (14:10): Even Speaker 3 (14:10): Though I work in the snapshot aesthetic. Speaker 2 (14:12): Yeah, that's interesting. So it makes me think, I don't know, just a piece that I really like in the show, which is your Sammy's, which seems like a real interesting departure of taking something like traditional printmaking and then building this installation out of it. That also seems maybe to a person just walking in just a casual seam you would see in, I don't know, your grandmother's house of plants or something. And I just was kind of curious where that sort of came from. Was that something you're just recently trying out as an artist, or is it something you've been doing for a while? Speaker 3 (14:49): I started doing the plants around this time last year. It was actually a project for class, and I started it because I started keeping plants in my studio, and I just got so excited about buying more plants and filling my studio and trying to make it look like a jungle. And I was like, why don't I make paper ones and then they can have all the cute designs that I want on the pots, on the plants. And so I just got really, really excited about that. And that's been pretty much all I've done since then. It is just tons and tons of plans. Speaker 2 (15:31): That's great. So I was curious about actually the images that we're showing behind these guys that we have scrolling, most of them are pulled from their submissions to the show. So not necessarily what is in the show, but what they wished was in the show, sort of the things they picked out. And so I'm kind of curious about if there were pieces that you were surprised, made it in over other pieces of yours, or if you would've rather had something in the show that didn't make it in. I know pj, you said you had a feeling about this earlier. I did mention this earlier, so I'll point you out. I was wondering if it was going to pop up again. Speaker 2 (16:13): Describe it for us though, if you want to talk about that piece. My one piece that did get in and was kind of cool, it was picked for the images was the egg, and it's got a golden egg on the inside and seems to be floating in another egg. And that piece I did not expect to necessarily get attention. And why not? Just because it's tiny and they made the poster and it looks giant. And then when I brought it in, everybody's like, oh, but it's so small. The deception of advertising I was not expecting. Now I think I totally had that same reaction to when I saw it in person. I was like, oh, that's tiny. I mean, I thought it was big when I first made it, but it was hard to get that size. But I have a piece that scrolling behind us that it was inspired by working here. Speaker 2 (17:02): And I am a sculpture major and I did stone carving and working with this material, I noticed I can get it to kind of take a marble kind of look if I layer the paper and cement kind of loosely. So I started making a portrait bust by basically filling bags, Ziploc bags with the material mixed up and stacking them in a way so that they all fit together in individual pieces and put it all on a flags stand and it kind of looks like an abstract portrait bust. And I was all excited and I was like, yeah, this piece is going to get in the show. And it didn't get, but my moons made it in too, and I didn't expect that. Why didn't you expect the moons to make it in? It was just kind of last and it was the last thing. I was like, I can do this too. So I've been doing everything I can with these materials. It's paper pulp, cement, plaster, and I just mash it all together. Sometimes there's sawdust mixed into it, and I started shoving it into bowls and kind of putting it into the corners and they look like rose petals. So I've made roses, I have a couple roses at home, and I didn't submit those, but maybe I should have. Speaker 2 (18:17): And I decided to make the moons, but as another way of using the bowls and the varying sizes. And I thought it was fun how they look like Constellation if you hang a whole bunch of 'em at once. But I don't know. That's interesting that in a way maybe was there a little bit of bias in your own head about the pieces based on your own sort of work on them and time involved? Exactly, yeah. And so it's just kind of funny to think about that as far as work ethic and those ideas of working and oh, this is, it's funny because I see that a lot in guests at the museum is that that's a big, if they look at a piece of art and they feel like, well, they didn't do much here. There's an expectation of a certain work ethic and oh, well, we expect somebody to have, it's the old, just like we were talking about with Duchamp, well, I could have done that. Speaker 2 (19:11): Right. And it kind of goes to show you though that when you know the reality of what you've done, and it doesn't really matter because the juror for the show obviously felt differently. They preferred this piece. So that's interesting though. But I agree. I would've put that shit piece in the show too if I was juror. I remember when I looked at it, I saw that piece and I was like, that's amazing. I love that sculpture. Why is that not in there? Thank you. You're welcome. Yeah, that was one of the first pieces that stood out to me too, was I love that. And actually I'll admit I didn't even see the sort of connection to a portrait bust either. I was just attracted to those sort of almost pillowy forms that you said, I guess were made by Ziploc bags, so the way that they look so soft almost, but then knowing that they're very rigid. So I like that. Aaron, did you have something else you were going to say? Speaker 3 (20:12): Yes, definitely. So like I said earlier, the works that I have on display are from a series that I made for my senior thesis in college. And the series is about a very good friend of mine who was shot in the stomach. And it was very hard for me to speak about the work without any of the photographs of him being included in the exhibition. Russell did put one up for the slideshow. So if you see a gentleman laying on a bed, that is the image that I'm referring to. So for me, it was just very difficult to speak about these three, although they're very important images within my 40 image book that didn't necessarily, I guess they're more ancillary images or auxiliary images that kind of go into more of the symbolic meaning behind the trauma that he faced. But without him actually being there represented, it was very difficult for me to talk about that work. Speaker 2 (21:08): Anyone else have anything they were surprised, didn't make it in over something else? Or you're looking like Denise, like Nah, Speaker 3 (21:19): The one piece that didn't get in is just, it's a painting of an egg and then a paper towel and there's no space. It's just all a flat space. There's no dimension or anything. And a lot of my other pieces have depth, space dimension, like high contrast. And it really wasn't a surprise, I just threw it in. I could have six images. Speaker 2 (21:44): And again, probably my favorite piece when I was looking through your work of those submissions, I love, I was like, I love this one. Maybe it's because it was the new thing too, maybe that was also, I had seen the other work, I'd already seen the show and then when I looked through the submissions I was like, but that's amazing. Look Speaker 3 (22:00): At that. That is a newer piece. Speaker 2 (22:02): I love that it is so flat. I thought that was really great. So I don't know, it was my favorite piece. Well, thank you. Yeah. So Larry, I've been dying to ask you about, you actually only submitted one piece and your piece in the show is very directly tied to the museum. So I was hoping you could, why don't you describe the piece in case these folks haven't seen it? It has been up on the screen, but you can just describe it for everybody. Speaker 4 (22:34): So this piece I used, it's a costume with fringe black Fringe. The reason why I only submitted one piece was because that's the one that I wanted to be in the show. Speaker 2 (22:51): Well, well, so Larry. Larry. Alright, so Speaker 4 (23:03): The material is actually from the museum and that's kind of one of my goals was to create work. So most of my costumes that I create are used or I use cast off materials. Another image in the background, you'll see a suit that I made with final records, consumer products that I used. So I like to collect things that some of my away and try to make something else out of it. So this piece is called them and I used the fringe curtains that were in the mid lap gallery that were cut down and were going to Speaker 2 (23:54): Be Speaker 4 (23:54): Thrown away. So I collected some of them and made a suit out of it and well, that's my hopes was that someday it could be back in the museum. And when we had this opportunity, I was like, that's the one. Speaker 2 (24:12): So yeah, I died laughing when I walked in and saw that piece not, and then I said, you called that art Speaker 4 (24:24): To add more context to this. A lot of people, patrons, probably people within the museum didn't really like the curtains that were in Speaker 2 (24:33): That Speaker 4 (24:33): Gallery. I don't really have an opinion one way or another about it, but I thought it was interesting that a lot of people just had this kind of negative emotion feeling towards that. So that's kind of what the piece the character is. Speaker 2 (24:47): Yeah, they were very divisive, that's for sure. Felt I didn't hear a lot of people go, I could take 'em or leave 'em. People kind had a very strong opinion one way or the other about the curtains. And so that was what I thought was so funny about your piece, and I was curious what your opinion was on it, because the piece actually seems actually to capture both of those sides of it by being called them, which has this, it's the title like a B movie from Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah. It's like old sci-fi movie, this very, and it has this monster movie kind of aesthetic thing kind of swamp Speaker 4 (25:30): Thing. Speaker 2 (25:30): Yeah, it's kind of dripping. And I mean immediately has this horror movie connotation to me when I looked at it. And then, so it was really great when I saw the title reflected that I was like, oh, this is so much. So this thing that was just sort of the terror of so many people's lives. The curtains. Oh, the curtains. And Schmidt like, oh, I thought it was so funny to make it into this literal monster. It's like terrorizing the museum. I thought it was so funny. So I'm glad to hear that. So it sounds like you actually maybe liked them in some ways or Speaker 4 (26:08): Like I said, I see both aspects of the argument. I mean, I think it was a good thing to try. It isn't necessarily museum, my opinion is it's not really museum. I don't know, it's just not the right feel for the museum. But again, this is just my opinion. I didn't hate them. I wasn't writing letters or anything like that. Put it on record that Speaker 2 (26:36): You didn't start letter writing. No kidding. Anyone else have any feelings about Schmidt lap curtains? Speaker 3 (26:46): They were before my time. Speaker 2 (26:48): You never saw them? Speaker 3 (26:48): No. I think I must've missed that opportunity. Speaker 2 (26:53): I personally missed them. I actually tactile chasing kids through Speaker 3 (26:58): Them. Rubbing your hands. Speaker 2 (26:59): Exactly. Is they around from? I missed them. I just feel like they, it was so unusual. And I remember the first time I walked into that gallery, I hadn't been to the museum in a while, it was before I worked here and I saw them and I had never seen anything like it. Basically, it's like you're saying this does not feel like a museum. And that's why I liked it. I was like, genuinely, this is the most surprising experience I've had in a museum in a very long time. And I walked in and also the way they absorbed light and it was so dark, which was that other people hated trip hazard. Yeah, possibly dangerous. But it was so exciting because you would just like to me, I walked in and I had no idea where space began and ended because of the way they played with light. And so I just loved them and they were so kind of theatrical too. I thought they were great. So I'm happy to see them back in the museum, even more happy to see them as a monster. So pj, Speaker 3 (28:08): Why the obsession with the Campbell County recorder? Speaker 2 (28:12): They just keep delivering it to my house. I bought a house in Bellevue and they keep sending me the paper and I'm like, I got to make good use of this. I don't want to just put it out to the recycle bin. So that's actually where it started. Do you read the articles? No. No. So you don't actually have a real connection with the paper on any level? Well, I literally live a mile from where I grew up. I've always lived in Campbell County, so there's my connection to recorder. Sure. Well that's why I did too, so that's why I kind of wondered. It's a paper I got at the house as a kid too. Do you read it? I don't live in Campbell County anymore, but if I did, I'd read it. Go front page to back. No, I will tell you there's a very special article in, I believe an issue maybe in 1988 about a budding poet who had an article published in Highlights. So you maybe, I dunno if you'd like to, I think there's an archivist somewhere in Alexandria, I sure can find it named Judy iig who can hook you up with copy of that if you'd like to see it. So Aaron, I wondered about your work. It feels very tied to a particular location to me. Speaker 3 (29:35): Yes. Speaker 2 (29:35): And I haven't really talked to you about this, so I'm curious, where do most of your photographs take place and is there sort of a specific locale to them? Speaker 3 (29:46): Yeah, so most of the photographs take place over on the west side of Cincinnati. I did shoot all of the work here, although I was going to college in upstate New York, specifically the Corian area. And an interesting thing that actually ties into a painting we have in the Schmidt Lab Gallery currently. Some pictures also take place on the East Miami River or the great Miami River, which has been a really inspirational place for me and just kind of going there and retreating and gathering my thoughts and making a lot of portraits there. But there's a Robert Duncanson piece that is of that same river up in the Schmid Lab Gallery right now. So it's kind of interesting to see two different images of the great Miami River here at the museum. Speaker 2 (30:33): That's really cool. Yeah. Does anyone else have any sort of, now I'm like, oh, that's great. Did anyone else do anything as cool as Aaron? No, the answer is no. I just like my stuff's kind of lame. Yeah, you got the Campbell County recorder thing too. Go. It's not a great river. I know I already sort of asked you something about this before, but are there any definite connections with any pieces you've made that are directly inspired by anything in the collection or anything else you've made or no? Probably. Probably. I definitely have, but nothing that was put into this show or submitted. I mean sure. But tell me about what you have made. That's fine. Okay. Well, I love the sculpture work, the old bronze work up in the Broke gallery. The rape of the savings is a good one. I love the three dimensionality of it. Not necessarily the context or Right. Great. The story. And I love that literally from each side. It's still a beautiful sculpture no matter what way you see it. There's not a back and a front, it's all in the round. So I did a version, but similar to my portrait bust, no detail in the figures and anything. No really abstract and loose and kind of just like a knot of people, if you will. All kind of combined. Cool. Yeah. Anybody else have anything that you can make a definite connection to? Anything or? Speaker 2 (32:07): All right, we'll go away from that dead end. I guess I was interested, I know you talked a little bit about shows that inspired you too. Has anyone else have any, and Sammy, you talked about the etching show. Any other big exhibitions that you've seen at the museum that had a lasting impact on you? Speaker 3 (32:36): Another one for me was Eyes on the Street that Brian Chills created absolutely incredible exhibition. Jill Magd, who had a piece evidence locker in that show had come and spoken at my college while I was a student. And I was blown away by her work then. And then seeing it here at the museum, I was like, oh my God. And just all of the other work, Philip or De Kche and all those other photographers. I mean, that was by far one of the best photography exhibitions I personally think that we've had. And Kentucky Renaissance too, I thought was really incredible to see all of those wonderful contemporary, or kind of contemporary, I guess they were making work in the fifties of the seventies, but those modern photographers making work that addressed kind of contemporary issues and just kind of that community element. I thought that was an excellent exhibition and I was so excited to see that because besides Ralphie Jean Meat Yard, I had not heard of any of those. Speaker 2 (33:31): Yeah, yeah. Eyes on the Street was an amazing show. I thought so too. And I thought it was really interesting because at first glance I thought a lot of that work would be really difficult for some viewers. But when I would tour people through that show, people loved it actually. Speaker 3 (33:47): Right. It's such visually striking work. I think that alone kind of made it stand apart. And I think something, not that say Kentucky Renaissance wasn't as visually striking, but just that I think Kentucky Renaissance was more of a photographer's exhibition, whereas Eyes on the Street is more universal. Speaker 2 (34:07): Yeah. Or were you going to say, I was in love with the Wesselman exhibition We did not too long ago. I mean, some of his pieces were just unbelievable. And it was the laser cut and metal drawings that they're not classified as a sculpture. They're not classified as a drawing or at least he likes to think they're not. And I mean, I love that argument and that was awesome. But he had these small pieces that were the little moquettes that he had been making for his large scale works, just cut from pieces of paper and stuff like that. And I went home and started doing that, taking my own drawings and modifying 'em and then cutting 'em out of stiff paper. And I started that right away. It was fun. But you asked earlier about how this place kind of affects your work on art and my artwork at home. Speaker 2 (34:57): And honestly, with what I do here, making mounts and the stuff I do, I am kind of making artwork all day every day with little pieces of brass and plexiglass and we're constantly cutting things out of cardboard and putting things together. And that's where my art is really spent. Now I'm creating here so much, especially with the Samurai show, once that ends, maybe I can make something of my own again. It's a lot of work. And that show, the Westman Show, I have to admit, we were putting stuff on the wall and I was going home and cutting things out, taping 'em together and playing with it. Oh, that's fun. So it really directly, you're going in and handling the stuff and putting it up on the walls and then going home and basically trying out the same techniques. Speaker 4 (35:43): Exactly. I figured if he was doing the Moquettes just with scotch tape was what he was doing, colored pieces of paper, I was doing a little cleaner and trying to make em look like finished pieces by using medium and gluing pieces together. Actually, I did a piece where I cut out the figure the way I liked it and I placed nails into a board and then I glued 'em onto the nail. So it's floating in front of the piece, kind of like one of his laser cuts, but inmate on the paper. Speaker 2 (36:09): But how economical, since you guys are all, I actually didn't know coming into this tonight that everyone was from here originally and has this sort of long connection with the museum. So I'm kind of curious, are there any pieces that you really love that you are not on view right now that you wish would be on view? I know everyone always has those Speaker 4 (36:34): Native American art. Speaker 2 (36:38): Yeah, just in general. Yeah. Period. What do you love about it? The costumes? Or is it more just a political thing you feel like it should be on? I think Speaker 4 (36:46): It should, but the costume work and the history. But yeah, visually the costume for me and the rituals that went with that. And it's hopefully someday that they'll come back. The African work is now out again, but there is a lot more that could come out with the African stuff if we could ever find space. Space is always an issue with the museum, and that's one of the things I was talking about before is there's only a small percentage of our collection is out that people get to see. So working here and what we do, we have the opportunity to see what people can't see and it's like, wow, that'd be good if we could display some things. But yeah, there's a lot. Speaker 2 (37:38): Yeah, that's such a cool connection. I would've never thought about the sort of performative nature of those works of Native American works and also some of those African dance pieces. That's really cool to make that connection. Anyone else have, and obviously you guys know better than probably most people, how much effort goes into putting this work out? So you know that this is dream dreamworld. I know it's not like just you get to snap your fingers and we can do that. So I'm just curious what those things you miss are Speaker 3 (38:11): One of my first artistic influences was Dega. And a few years ago we had a Dega exhibition here and we have about, I think it's seven pieces if I remember correctly, of Dega in storage. And you can, from what I remember, have them out once every seven years because they're so sensitive to life. But they're so beautiful and yeah, I wish I could those all the time, but just to keep them looking as good as they do now, we have to keep them away for a while. Speaker 2 (38:41): Yeah, that's the shame. When we have great things that are just our works on paper that you can only show for such a short period of time and you're like, oh, I wish we could show this all the time. Those Degas are amazing. Speaker 3 (38:52): There are a lot of photographs like that too, because they're also light sensitive works. So I think we had Ryan McGinley's Petra up where our Andy Warhol currently is, and that was on view for a little while. I was sad to see that go. We've had some other photographs as well, and then I've been working on our annual reports, so I just saw the recent accessions that we've got, and those works haven't been out on view yet, but would really love to see Gregory help Burn in the gallery. The Al Dur, Adam and Eve, that was up with the Master Cats. Al Dur is my favorite. Er we do, yes. I'm so ready, so ready. Good news. So excited that one. And then there's a painting called, I'm going to mess up the pronunciation, but the Terrace at Merrick by Frederick Bazile. Speaker 2 (39:50): Sounds good to me. Speaker 3 (39:52): We'll go with it. And that one had been up for a while because I remember before working here coming and that was first stop for me all the time. It was unfinished. So there was a lady on a bench that was sketched in charcoal and she looked super ghostly, but the rest of it was all painted and yeah, I have a picture of the day. I had my interview here, me next to that painting. I love it so much. And then I was taking my friend through the museum one day and I'm like, and my favorite paintings in here and it was gone. I'm like, alright, well it was here. I promise. Yeah, everyone's Speaker 2 (40:33): Had that experience. Things move around and yeah, it's better to happen in that instance than when you're in the middle of say a tour and you go, I should have done a walkthrough first. Maybe I should have called you and told you I or yeah, I'll blame you pj. Yeah, you could have called me, man. Come on, sorry. Speaker 3 (40:55): Well, Speaker 2 (40:56): This is my favorite part because I've been dreaming about this for a while, is that I get to play Phil Donahue now and walk down and if anyone has any questions, and I'm looking in your general direction, Kim and Josh, because you guys can, Speaker 5 (41:16): You got a question for me? Josh? Speaker 3 (41:18): I am wondering if any of you think about the lifespan of your artwork because I mean, we have a lot of art in the museum that has lasted for many, many years and we also have a lot of things in storage that we're not so lucky. And a lot of it is thinking about the Speaker 6 (41:32): Materials that you use and how they change over time. And so I'm wondering if you think about that when you make art Speaker 2 (41:40): And that question came from an objects conservator. Often I just think this is not going to be able to be conserved. So good luck. Speaker 3 (41:56): All hope is lost. Speaker 2 (42:02): It depends on what media I'm working in, but not really. Not anymore. It's more I think about the preparer and whether or not they're going to be able to handle the artwork without it just crumbling in their hands how you get it on the wall. And I'll tell you what, I've done some gallery work and stuff before and I put hangers on all of my artwork and all artists should put hangers on the back of all of their artwork before showing up with your artwork to be installed. It's very important. Speaker 3 (42:35): It's something that I've started to think about more after this show, particularly homegrown the plants. My main concern when I was making that was like, will this stay standing for crit? Will the leaves not fall off this plant? And I never, in my dst daydreams, I imagine that it would be in the museum. And now I'm looking at it and I'm like, would that make it past this? It's taken care of here, but once it's back in my hands, is it going to be okay? My storage situation is a little weird, so I don't know that I'd ever be able to show it again. So now when I'm working on stuff, I'm like, how do I make this usable multiple times. Speaker 2 (43:26): I actually want to ask Kelly another question now. Now you're on the panel, Kelly. I'm curious, is there any show pieces in the show that give you that you look at and you go, oh, that ain't going to last my Speaker 6 (43:40): Work? Probably. There are a lot that, I mean, when I look at art, that is what I think about how I would take care of that in the longterm if it ever came to that. So I mean, Larry's piece, I didn't get to see it mounted or anything, but I am assuming those curtains are a polyester blend, likely. So they would last for a very long time. Probably Speaker 2 (44:06): Not sensitive, they're flame retardant. I research Speaker 6 (44:13): Was part of it. I have talked to some of the artists already about their, Josh, I've talked to him about the resin that he uses and that maybe it will yellow over time if he exposes it to too much light. So that is something that I think about. And yeah, I wonder if anyone else thinks about that too, just because things don't last forever. And is it just the creation of the art and you don't really care what happens to it after that? Or do you really want that tangible thing to last? I think Speaker 4 (44:41): That's a good question. I think you have to kind of balance that working here and working with conservators. You do. I do think of those things, but you do have to balance. And also with contemporary modern materials, I don't know what plexiglass is going to do. I have no idea. So I could ask you, but who knows? Speaker 2 (45:04): I'll tell you. When I was making the eggs for that piece, it was more about whether or not they would survive the process of me creating them. And they're so thin, they literally are like eggshell thin. So I mean, will they Last time, I don't know. But they survived my car ride here and I was really happy with that. Are there any more audience questions? Oh, one more over here. Speaker 6 (45:36): I first just wanted to say thanks to all five of you because seeing the show, and I know there were many more than you guys, it just made another reason, an emotional deposit in my bank account with the museum and knowing it's like, God, I should have thought of that when I got out of college, get a job in security at the museum. But I mean, I just think it, it's lovely. But my specific question is for Larry, because I did some background on the Nick Cave show when it was here and your pieces just spoke to me and I think Nick would be proud. And I was then when I see the pieces that didn't make into the show, I would love for you to talk about the guy standing in the middle of the street. Speaker 2 (46:26): Yeah, Speaker 6 (46:26): Talk about that character. So powerful. Speaker 4 (46:30): So thank you. That character is called Beast Mode and he's made a vinyl record. That particular version of him is made of vinyl records. They were final records that were thrown away basically by another part of the forest, which is in O T R on Main Street. So I became friends with the owner, Mike, and he's weekly would throw them away just stacks and stacks of records because he didn't have any place for them. And a friend of mine pointed that out to me, and so I just started collecting them and made that suit. As far as Nick Cave, I didn't really get to talk about it earlier, but that was very influential on me, that exhibit. I was able to help. I was in school at the time and I had done costume work in the past, but not Speaker 2 (47:31): In the fine arts realm. And seeing his show, I was like, well, okay, you can do that in the gallery and see how people react. So that was a big impact on me seeing that show. Speaker 3 (47:47): Thank you. Can the panel maybe go by one by one and tell us what you're up to now or what your next project's going to be? And it's okay if that's installing the Dress to Kill show at the Cincinnati Art Museum that February 11th. Thank you. Like I said, I'm working on getting some negatives developed. I think I have about 15 or so roles that I'm working to compile together. I've moved away from portraiture, which is really different for me as you can see, all of my pieces in the show, our portraits. So I'm kind of just moving away from that and focusing more on abstract landscapes. So I'm really interested to see these negatives come back. It was what I shot on a road trip this summer with the exhibition designer, former exhibition designer at Crystal. So it'll be great to see that work finally, after a lot, a lot of months. Speaker 2 (48:45): I saw some of the salt flat pictures and stuff on Speaker 3 (48:47): Facebook. Oh yes. Yeah, those Speaker 2 (48:48): Be good. So Speaker 7 (48:49): I've not Speaker 3 (48:49): Gotten the negatives back Speaker 7 (48:50): Still, but Speaker 2 (48:52): As Kim said, I'm working on the Dress to Kill Show, which is 11 Samurai suits, which has been a mess to try and figure out and keep organized. And I don't even know how many swords, I want to say like 20 swords, six shotguns, pistols, everything. It's unbelievable the amount of stuff that goes into this. So I'm not really working on artwork too much, except I've been experimenting with creating kind of outdoor chandeliers. We'll say I use solar l e d string lights and I have glass bottles and a glass bottle cutter and I cut 'em down and glue the lids on over the lights and make 'em into clusters and kind of crazy things. So experimenting with that. Speaker 3 (49:40): I'm in my final semester at DAP right now, so I'm doing thesis work, which will be, the plan is for it to be a large scale plant installation, similar to homegrown but bigger. Speaker 7 (49:58): So for the museum, I'm finishing Speaker 2 (50:00): Up a Tiffany design. Tiffany Windows and Lampshade. Yeah, lamps, which opens Speaker 3 (50:11): April 1st. Speaker 2 (50:12): April 1st. I also did the exhibition design for the Dress to Kill show, which opens February 11th. And it's a fantastic show. Speaker 4 (50:25): PJ is still an amazing job. Everybody, the whole crew carpenters everybody. My personal work, I'm continuing making costumes, doing performance. I am finishing up a project called Amazing Urban Adventures. That's through people's liberty. And I'm also continuing with my performance work, which is called For Realism Tribe for Realism tribe. Speaker 3 (51:02): So currently I'm working on a few commissions for family and friends, but my personal work, I'm trying to really focus on my charcoal drawings. I work with both painting and drawing, but just trying to stay focused on the charcoal work, what I'm most comfortable in, and just enjoy doing a lot more. I'm trying to stay at a smaller scale. A lot of my work is really big. And actually, Kelly, to answer your question, my blue sink drawing that's in the show, I did think about that and also how I was going to hang it so you guys could hang it. But yeah, so at a smaller scale, more spaces that people live in so you can understand the person that lives in this space just by the things that inhabited and kind of work with the figure a little bit too. So trying a lot of different things and seeing where it takes me. Speaker 4 (52:04): Well, I want to thank you guys all for being here tonight, and thank you all for coming tonight and hopefully if you haven't seen the show yet, you've still got a little while. What's the close? Three more weeks? Speaker 3 (52:16): February 19th. Speaker 4 (52:17): February 19th. So you've got a little bit of time still to go check out the show, so thank you so much everyone. Speaker 1 (52:35): Thank you for listening to Art Palace. We hope you'll come visit the Cincinnati Art Museum and have conversations about the art yourself. General admission to the museum is always free, and we also offer free parking. Special exhibitions on view right now are the poetry of place, William Clifft, Linda Connor, and Michael Kenna. The book of only Enoch and the Jackleg Testament, part one, Jack and Eve and of course, employed a staff art exhibition which closes on February 19th. So come see it soon. Opening on February 11th are dressed to kill Japanese arms and armor and transcending reality, the woodcuts of aka ga. For program reservations and more information, visit cincinnati art museum.org. You can follow us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and even Snapchat. Our theme song is Efron Al by Becca Lao. If you like what you heard, be sure to rate and review us on iTunes. It really helps others discover our show. I'm Russell Iig and this has been Art Palace produced by the Cincinnati Art Museum.