Speaker 1 (00:00): Coming up on Art Palace Speaker 2 (00:02): Wigs many times hide up, cover up what you don't want to be revealed at that moment in time. Speaker 1 (00:24): Welcome to Art Palace, produced by Cincinnati Art Museum. This is your host, Russell iig. Here at the Art Palace, we meet cool people and then talk to them about art. Today's cool person is Catherine Garett, positive broker, artistic, logistic, and civic. So just to get started, tell us a little bit about yourself. Speaker 2 (00:53): I am a native Cincinnatian and I love Walnut Hills where the Cincinnati Art Museum is located. Speaker 2 (01:01): I've been a resident of Walnut Hills for almost 30 years. Grew up next door in Evanston in the house that my mother grew up in. I believe that you must give back in all the wondrous ways that you are involved in your life, and I've been fortunate to do that. So as I said, the positive broker, I literally went back to grad school and got a master of Science in Positive Organization development and change from Case Western Reserve University artistically. I'm in an ensemble called Drums for Peace and Drums for Peace is part of Through The Looking Glass. That is a project that was with the Cincinnati Art Museum that won a Corbit award. Oh wow. Yep. That was very exciting to do. Logistically, I am the engagement ambassador with Prestige AV and Creative Services and civically. Currently I'm the president of the Walnut Hills Area Council, and in that civic category, I believe in giving back to the industry in which I work. So I volunteer with Meeting Professionals International and the International Live Event Association here in town, as well as Learning Through Art, which is an organization founded by Kathy Wade. Speaker 1 (02:17): So tell us a little bit about, I mean you kind of just did in some ways, but tell us more about giving back. Speaker 2 (02:24): Giving back. For example, last night I facilitated our monthly area council meeting, and in that as a community council, there are many things that come to us. So to give you an example, we had two development projects that made presentations and we had residents that were concerned about one of the development projects. So it's connecting people so that you can have those conversations. So there's a win-win in the, ultimately the give back looks like picking up the garbage on my street. It's been for Soapbox Media has been doing an on the ground series in Wanted Hills, and I've been the host of what's called the Open Newsrooms that we've been having, which is having conversations like you and I are with themes for each day that we gather to talk to residents and businesses that are here. So give back is connecting. Speaker 1 (03:21): Yeah. What are maybe some changes you've seen happening in Walnut Hills over, I don't know, the past 10 years? Speaker 2 (03:29): Great question of what's been happening in Walnut Hills for the last 10 years. I believe that most people see what's happened coming out of the ground in the last four or five years and think that that's just how long it's been. Speaker 1 (03:42): But Speaker 2 (03:42): One of the big changes that happened in the last 10 years was Wanted Hills a return to two-way streets on William Howard Taft and McMillan. And while that's only been in existence for a few years, the need and the conversations that started that literally have been going on for 20 years. But it takes time for that. So that's a change that's happening. A change that I've lived through is seeing our census track say that we had 20,000 residents that lived in Wanted Hills to a decline of 7,000 at the last census. And we know that in the census that will be coming up this year. So my plug for fill out your census April 1st, is that day is that we know that there's going to be an increase Speaker 1 (04:30): In Speaker 2 (04:30): Population in the neighborhood. So seeing different demographics move into the neighborhood. When you come into Walnut Hills, it says a diverse neighborhood since 1800. That is a truism for us and that diversity is still here. By this time next year, the first African-American owned brewery will be in what I call the corner of downtown Walnut Hills at Gilbert and McMillan in Paramount Square. Speaker 1 (04:59): Nice. Nice. So you were talking about making streets two ways and you said it as if it were obvious why that's a big deal, and I'm guess I'm curious why is it a big deal? What did that mean for those streets and for that neighborhood? Speaker 2 (05:14): It is statistically proven that one way streets, if you are driving in your car Speaker 1 (05:20): And Speaker 2 (05:21): You go past the business that you wanted to go to, you think twice about going back around the block to do that. So we have history that over the course of time that the businesses that were on the one-way streets didn't have the business to support them, so they closed. And you have that economic proof that one-way streets are contributing to the demise of business districts. Speaker 1 (05:46): That's fascinating. Speaker 2 (05:47): It's very fascinating Speaker 1 (05:49): Because when you said that, I just sort of thought like, okay, I mean, I kind of knew well, there's got to be a reason for this, but I was just curious. I would've thought that, and does it affect so much of downtown is One Way Streets, is it true in a downtown district as well, or is it more neighborhood Speaker 2 (06:09): Type? I would say yes, that if we look at our central business district that are times in history Speaker 1 (06:15): That Speaker 2 (06:15): You can see that the one way Streets impacted whether a business was successful or not, we need to remember that part of Vine Street that is now two way, five years ago was one way. And since it's turned to two way, there's be a resurgence of activity on those streets. So for me, it doesn't matter whether you're in the central business district in an urban neighborhood or in suburbia, if your business district has one-way streets, there's some challenges that you're dealing with. Speaker 1 (06:46): I love stuff like that. I think it's so fascinating because it's like these decisions that are made. I think we always think we're so in control of ourselves, but we're so influenced by these minute little things about a city and how it runs and the way how a sidewalk looks or something will affect whether you walk on that side or all of those little minute things change how we interact with spaces and cities. Speaker 2 (07:11): It certainly does when you say, when you walk past the space. So there are also studies that have been done for development and neighborhoods that are coming back that you literally want your development to happen building by building, by building not a building on this block and a building in the next block because people are concerned about walking that block where there's nothing there to get to it. Speaker 1 (07:33): So Speaker 2 (07:33): You have to keep that in mind as well. Speaker 1 (07:35): So you have to be strategic and literally go down a path with it. Speaker 2 (07:39): Very strategic. Speaker 1 (07:40): Wow, that is fascinating. Speaker 2 (07:41): And on the flip side, I will say that one of the reasons why the Are One Way Streets specifically in our community is that you think what's on the other side, we have the university, we have hospitals. They need their employees to easily get in and out. So it's a plus for them in that when we have expanded the 71 exit route, and I look at the 71 since the exit route has been opened and still there's still a lot of traffic coming off of McMillan or Taft all going over to the university and hospitals. Speaker 1 (08:16): Yeah, that's true. Interesting. Anything else you want to say about just the Walnut Hills neighborhood in general or things that you are excited about, things that you're looking forward to? Speaker 2 (08:26): I'm very excited that the Cincinnati Ballet is going to be across from the Cincinnati Art Museum. I'm very excited that we have a ceramicist that has purchased a building and is redoing a building. One of the little known facts is that Walnut Hills has been an artist enclave, a diverse artist enclave for decades. We don't tout that we're an artist enclave within the city. We just are. We have recording studios. We have Grammy Award nominated musicians and composers that live in Wanted Hills. We have award-winning visual artists and performing artists that live in Wanted Hills. We have innovation that's happening right here in Walnut Hills, and that's something that not everyone knows about this community. That is just a wonderful thing that we have. Speaker 1 (09:20): Yeah. Tell me a little more about Drums for Peace. You mentioned that forever ago now, it seems like, but you threw that out there and I'm curious a little bit to hear a little bit more about what they do. Speaker 2 (09:31): So Drums for Peace, we do arts integration and corporate team building using percussion story and song. So there is, we know for example that the frame drum, you will find a frame drum on every continent except Antarctica, and they are drums that connect the world. So you can talk about how people are connected by a percussive instrument. You can talk about in the team building how everyone can play the same rhythm consistently. But when you add a poly rhythm to it, that causes the mind to think differently. We know that hand to eye coordination with young children is developed through rhythms. The ability to play rhythms and drums for peace, we're a great component of, if you can say it, you can play it. So it's getting that full body into the rhythm of it. You'll find us around on second Sundays on Maine doing samba parades. Baba Charles and his enclave have been part of the Martin Luther King Day for 25 years. Back in the old days when Artworks had a performance tent for 10 summers, drums for Peace was the performance tent was sidebar of that. One of the students who was in our performance tent the year that we actually built instruments, one of the instruments we built was from a Gord, and it's called a Shake Array. When she went off to college, she built shake arrays to help supplement Speaker 1 (11:01): Her Speaker 2 (11:01): College. So it's That is still there. Speaker 1 (11:05): Nice. What's a poly rhythm? Speaker 2 (11:06): A poly rhythm is, Speaker 1 (11:13): That's Speaker 2 (11:13): A poly rhythm. So I want you to clap the pulse. Speaker 1 (11:15): Okay. Wait, wait. Okay. No, this is going to make me look bad. Okay. So just Speaker 2 (11:20): Think of 1, 2, 3, 4. Speaker 1 (11:23): Okay. Okay. That's what I'm doing. Okay. That's the pulse. Okay. Okay, Speaker 2 (11:25): So you do the pulse. Speaker 1 (11:26): Okay. Speaker 2 (11:34): So the poly rhythm is that you could feel that tension between us Speaker 1 (11:38): When Speaker 2 (11:38): You were clapping and I wasn't and I was, you weren't. That's what makes it the poly rhythm. Speaker 1 (11:43): And now all of my coworkers are wondering what we're doing. Speaker 2 (11:47): We're creating music, we're creating art. Speaker 1 (11:51): Probably somebody who's sitting there, what are they doing, looking over at their desk. So I understand you have a space that used to be a salon. Speaker 2 (12:02): Yes. And we still call it a salon in the 17th century aspect of a salon. Speaker 1 (12:07): Oh, yes, yes. Speaker 2 (12:09): One, Charles and I are invested in Walnut Hills as well, and one of the ways that we invested was by purchasing a commercial space in the business district. And Miss Daisy's was the first African-American owned beauty salon and spa in Cincinnati. Wow. It's fascinating. There's a sauna and a jacuzzi in the basement and the salon, the hair salon component was on the first floor and upstairs is where she had exercise classes and there was another salon up there. So it was just really looking at wellness, not just from getting your hair done, but the whole person being taken care of. Speaker 1 (12:49): Oh, that's so cool. When did it open? Speaker 2 (12:51): It was in the eighties that it opened. The building was built as a bank. I love our building. It is a single stack, mid Maddern built in 1958. Speaker 1 (13:00): Oh, that sounds really cool. Now we're like, like, I need to come see this building. Speaker 2 (13:04): Please do. We host mindfulness twice a week, eight ams on Monday mornings and 8:30 PM on Thursday evenings. Speaker 1 (13:12): So that's crazy. So you said it was the first black owned hair salon or first owned business? Speaker 2 (13:17): It was the first African-American owned beauty salon and spa. So, and Miss Daisy invested in the building. It's one of those things that I talk about today. It's great for a business to have business and get business support, but for sustainability, I'm a firm believer that businesses need to own the building in which their business resides because when you own the building, your rents don't go up. Speaker 1 (13:44): You Speaker 2 (13:44): Don't get priced out. And Ms. Daisy believed in that as well and purchased that building. Speaker 1 (13:48): Yeah, I thought we would actually look at a piece that is kind of inspired by hair and salons and that idea of really identity that I think is so linked to hair. And we're going to check out a piece right now in the Women Breaking Boundaries exhibition. Speaker 2 (14:08): Great. Speaker 1 (14:19): So we are in women Breaking Boundaries now, and we are standing in front of Lorna Simpson's piece, which is just called WIGS Portfolio. And this is a collection of lots of different photographs really, of wigs that are printed on felt, and they're kind of arranged almost, I don't know, how would you describe this arrangement? Speaker 2 (14:44): They're a hodgepodge of decades of how wigs were worn, how women incorporated the use of wigs into their lives at the time. Speaker 1 (14:59): So what it makes me think of is it feels very scientific, almost like the way they're arranged. And maybe it's because they also have, we should mention in addition to the photos of the wigs, which are just kind of photographed, looks like on a white background, very plain. There are also these little almost tags that maybe that's what looks almost like scientific, Speaker 2 (15:22): The descriptor Speaker 1 (15:24): That are kind of also pinned some to the wall, some sort of between the wigs, some on the actual pieces. They're very strange. And if you read the pieces, they sort of ask more questions than answer them. They Speaker 2 (15:38): Do. Speaker 1 (15:38): They bring up all sorts of things. This one, actually over here is one of my favorites. It's on this blonde wig and it says she dressed them as twins, sometimes female, sometimes male, Speaker 2 (15:48): Yes. Speaker 1 (15:49): And that's so provocative about what what's going on Speaker 2 (15:53): And what I find very interesting, there's just one blonde in the whole showing here, as well as there are wigs that you know would see on a European, there are wigs that you know would see on an African-American, the one here that is the locks, the braids that are there, the twist. And yet you also have twists that would be on Shirley Temple that you would see. Speaker 1 (16:20): So I decided I should probably actually do a little bit of research before I started break my typical routines. And one of the things I thought was really fascinating that I found out is all of the wigs are printed to scale. So these are all actual size. So these little tiny wigs that you pointed at, you said Shirley Temple, those are for dolls. They're doll wigs. Doll Speaker 2 (16:43): Wigs, and probably a Shirley Temple doll. It might Speaker 1 (16:46): Be, yeah. I mean, they have that look of a very old doll. So I think that's another thing though that makes you relate almost immediately to the body with most of them is that they feel like that's the size of that wig. You could just put that on your head. Speaker 2 (17:02): So I find the use of wigs very intriguing to myself. I grew up in a household where my mother wore wigs, not all the time, but she would wear wigs. And my sister still today, we were on a trip and she went into her favorite wig store because it was almost winter and she wears wigs as her winter cap. So my sister, Marcia Denise does that. But also, I don't know if many people know that women who are Orthodox Jewish, they do not show their hair in public, so they also are always covered in a wig. Speaker 1 (17:42): Really? Speaker 2 (17:43): Yes. Speaker 1 (17:44): That is fascinating. Speaker 2 (17:45): That's one of those fascinating things that how the wig Speaker 1 (17:49): Knew they would cover their heads, but I didn't know you could get away with a wig. That seems like a technicality. Speaker 2 (17:58): I know women who are my friends who are orthodox, and Speaker 1 (18:02): It just seems like a loophole. Right? Speaker 2 (18:04): Yeah. Little loophole, but a long-term Speaker 1 (18:07): Loophole. Right. Speaker 2 (18:08): The other thing I find fascinating about this exhibit is the use of the nets Speaker 1 (18:14): And Speaker 2 (18:14): Wigs. How literally, I can think of my mother putting her wigs into a net to store. That's how you store, if you didn't have a wig head, you put it in a net so it was protected. Speaker 1 (18:29): Yeah. And it's funny because she's only done it with a few of them, and it's interesting, it gives this different sort of dimension to the pieces. Most of them look like they're just kind of hanging on the wall, which is kind of an odd, really not how you would display a wig, like you're saying that you would normally have it on a wig head, and then these others are hanging from, it just looks like a nail or a pin or something that's hanging from that net. So they become, yeah, they almost look like a little trapped animal or something like they do you imagine when a snare trap comes up and it's what it makes me think of, Speaker 2 (19:06): It's all so fascinating, and I look at all, you can see that many of these wigs are really not full coverings, but hair pieces so that the woman would pretty much put her hair up in a ponytail, in a bun on her head, and then she would add this additional bun or add the additional ponytail to make it long for her. Speaker 1 (19:27): Yeah. I think one of the things she brought up about the idea, and this kind of comes up in that label, I read about dressing them up as twins, sometimes male female is the way that the hair is so directly connected with identity. And you brought up the idea of a lot of these look like wigs that would be worn by African-American women. I think she bought all the wigs in her neighborhood in Brooklyn, and so it kind of reflects the clientele of the neighborhood, which Speaker 2 (19:58): Makes me even more intrigued. Why is there that platinum blonde up there? Speaker 1 (20:03): But I think that makes sense too because it's like this is 94 can, I'm immediately, I think of Lil Kim wearing her blonde or all of her that kind of very purposefully, we know this is a wig, this is, I'm not Speaker 2 (20:20): Pretending. Speaker 1 (20:21): Right. Yeah. This is sort of a costume and we all get it. So I mean, maybe it was from that, who knows what this sort of, or maybe it could just be like, oh, we keep this around because who knows, somebody's going to buy it one day. But I think the idea of, one of the things when I mentioned this piece was also in the exhibition 30 Americans. And one of the things I enjoyed thinking about then when I would look at it and talk about it with people was the idea of how different it would be for each of us to put on these wigs based on who we are in society. So for me to put on that blonde wig means something different than for you to put on that blonde wig. And for both of us, it's something seen as we shouldn't be wearing that blonde wig. Right? Speaker 2 (21:09): Correct Speaker 1 (21:09): Me because I'm a man primarily Speaker 2 (21:11): And because I am an African-American woman with dark hair. Speaker 1 (21:14): Right. And so those are both these sort of weird things that there's a lot of weight to it. And the idea of how much, when you see somebody, it's like we put a lot of importance on hair and where we think they are in society and what their position is. It's really interesting. One of the things I do is sometimes I'll walk through, I walk my dogs through the park, and this is maybe getting way off topic, so maybe I'll edit this out. But I will think about how I'll see people sleeping in the park and I'll think about what makes me think they're homeless or not. Speaker 1 (21:59): What are the things, because sometimes you see people sleeping in the park and you think they have nowhere else to sleep. And then sometimes you can just tell they're just sleeping in a park because it's fun or it's like this interesting thing, especially when the weather's nice, it's like a spring day. There'll just be people laying around. And it's really fascinating to think about what are the clues that I'm picking up here because I know instinctively and immediately whether this is a person who has to sleep in a park or a person who is just choosing to sleep in a park. And a lot of times it's extraneous things like hair or clothes or what they're wearing. And it's like, it's very fascinating. Why do I have this perception of this person? Speaker 2 (22:40): It's the same with wigs. Speaker 1 (22:42): Yeah. Yeah. Speaker 2 (22:43): And I don't wear a wig, but many people are always surprised. I wear my hair mostly twisted up on top of my hair to know that my hair is, as long as that wig in that picture, Speaker 1 (22:56): Really, Speaker 2 (22:57): I donate 18, 19 inches of hair every few years. Speaker 1 (23:02): Wow. Speaker 2 (23:03): Yeah. Speaker 1 (23:03): That's impressive. Well, and there's also, there's this mustache wig too. It's like a fake mustache, which I think is another one that kind of hints at the ideas of how gender are a part of this too. I think that's a really fascinating thing again, for you to wear that is different For me to wear it for you to put on a fake mustache suddenly bears a very different weight than it does for me to wear. That Speaker 2 (23:26): Reminds me of a Lucille Ball. I love Lucy episode with the fake mustache. Speaker 1 (23:31): I don't remember. I don't think I've know if I've seen that one. What happens? Speaker 2 (23:35): She was trying to hide from Ricky's. Of course she put on the mustache and tried to be part of the band. Speaker 1 (23:41): Oh, okay. I probably have seen that one then again. That's probably happens in many, many episodes. And then this one over here too, which I've heard some people call a goatee. The Speaker 2 (23:52): Goatee. Yes. And it's placed on the paper. Well, Speaker 1 (23:58): It ain't a goatee. Speaker 2 (23:59): It's Speaker 1 (23:59): Not a goatee. Yeah, no. Speaker 2 (24:01): Got to go low. Speaker 1 (24:03): And that was confirmed. But when I was listening, I found some audio of Lorna Simpson talking about it, and it is in fact a Merkin, which is a genital wig, which a lot of times was popular, I believe, when basically people would shave because they were so worried about pubic lice and stuff. And that was like they would have to shave their bodies but then wear a wig. But it was still fashionable. And again, this is also fascinating because if she did, like she said, bought these all in her neighborhood, it's kind of amazing Speaker 2 (24:38): That what's going on in Brooklyn. Speaker 1 (24:41): I mean, I'm not surprised. You can probably get anything in Brooklyn if you look hard enough. I would guess Speaker 2 (24:48): This one on top here is you can see it's a sewing piece. Speaker 1 (24:52): Yeah, yeah. I was thinking about that. Some of them you can tell her are, I mean, it's interesting because she's sort of taken the definition of the wig with the mustache and that one and extended it. And it's kind of fun to see, even the doll wigs are kind of interesting sort of taking this, and again, maybe that's almost this scientific approach to it where it's like, here are my specimens. Look at them. Speaker 2 (25:16): I remember as a little girl taking the curling comb or the hot comb to my doll babies' hair when I was little. So I can see why you would want wigs and things for your doll babies as well as yourself. Speaker 1 (25:34): That's interesting. And I think about the kids I grew up with and their dolls were always an experimenting. The place where they experimented on their hair, you would find those barbies in somebody's house that were all shaved practically. They'd been put through the ringer of Speaker 2 (25:53): Crayon marks on them or marker mes, different Speaker 1 (25:56): Styles. And yeah, they'd sort of exhausted all the possibilities and she was down to sort of scary little spikes Speaker 2 (26:05): And the holes coming through the Speaker 1 (26:07): Head. But I think that's true. It's kind of like a place where little kids can almost practice that experimentation and style and ideas of that. Yeah. Speaker 2 (26:19): I find it interesting that of these wigs here, except for the mustache, possibly this one, most of them infer female usage. Speaker 1 (26:32): Yeah. Yeah. It's hard to tell The one you pointed, it looks a short, it's hard to tell a little bit. It's just a big round circle of hair. So it could be a man's wig. It could be a woman's wig. We're not seeing too much details. Maybe that went up in the corner also, but definitely. But I think that makes sense also because it's like, wouldn't you say women are probably the predominant shoppers of wigs? Speaker 2 (26:58): I do believe so. I Speaker 1 (26:59): Mean, I don't have the stats on that. I actually believe, I'm just guessing Speaker 2 (27:02): Women are the more public purchaser of Speaker 1 (27:05): Wigs Speaker 2 (27:06): Because men don't necessarily want it to be known that Speaker 1 (27:10): Well, that's Speaker 2 (27:11): True. They're wearing a wig. Speaker 1 (27:12): Yeah. I also think it kind of speaks to the sort of differences of what men can get away with. I'm standing here very bald, don't really care that much, haven't really been that torn up about it. And I have probably very similar hair though, to my grandmother who just passed away. She had very, very fine hair in all her life. She wore a wig. So the thing that to me, genetically, we have basically the same hair, probably the thing that to me is sort of like, eh, whatever. I, sure, it'd be nice if I had hair, but I'm certainly not going to invest a lot of money in it. And the idea also, the idea of wearing a wig for me would also feel like I'm trying to trick somebody. So that's another thing about it that it feels maybe deceitful. Speaker 2 (28:06): And yet women use wigs, hair pieces as they use jewelry. Many times it's an accessory that you put on because you're going to this event and you want your hair to look X way. Speaker 1 (28:21): Yeah. Speaker 2 (28:21): Yeah. I don't think, yeah, Speaker 1 (28:23): It's true. It goes a little bit both ways. I think in general, it's like, obviously there's so much more pressure put on women about how they look and how they present themselves. And I think that's a big part of it, obviously, why women probably are buying the most wigs. But then also it is, I'm a little jealous that they do get that freedom of expression, which I think you can see in a lot of fashion as well. Men's fashion is usually pretty boring after a certain period of time. There are parts of history where suddenly men get to be really flamboyant and extravagant. But in general, it's like Billy Porter's the only man we care about. What he wears to the Oscars Speaker 2 (29:04): Out of the box, Speaker 1 (29:05): Right? He gets to be expressive and fun at the Oscars, whereas everyone else, it's like, oh, okay, his tux is purple. And that's a big deal suddenly. Whereas women's fashion has always been allowed to be more expressive in that way. So yeah, I think you're right. That idea of a wig as an accessory. And actually that was the thing that also always sort of fascinated me about my grandmother's wigs, even though frankly, they all look just like old lady hair. And she had a bunch of 'em, and I couldn't tell them all apart. Speaker 2 (29:39): She could. Speaker 1 (29:40): It's like they all look, the difference is just that idea of Speaker 2 (29:46): Like, oh, that's so fun. You get to wear a Speaker 1 (29:48): Costume. To me, it was like, oh, you get to wear a costume. And I think if you think about in movies, if there's a man wearing a toupee or a wig, it's always a joke, right? It's never like any, Speaker 2 (30:02): It's not really real. Speaker 1 (30:05): It's never a point of pride or it's always treated like as, oh, the wig comes off and it's a joke. Ha ha ha. So I think for a balding man to wear a wig is, and still in our society is seen as kind of, there's that idea of deceit or shame or something in it. And I don't think exists for a woman Speaker 2 (30:25): Until we go way, way, way, way back when in government. Speaker 1 (30:30): Oh, sure, sure. Speaker 2 (30:30): When you went to do your job, you put on the robe and the wig. Speaker 1 (30:34): Yeah. Yeah. I mean, yeah, even the sort of 18th century fashion, right? I'm thinking of our paintings upstairs of Richard Pierce Simons with his powdered wig, and you just think, yeah, that was a part of men's fashion at that time where wigs were just a thing to wear. So yeah, again, it just depends. So maybe we're moving into that period. Maybe we'll have another time where men can wear wigs without fear of, it's interesting, what's Speaker 2 (31:01): Considered normal at what period of time. Speaker 1 (31:05): Totally. And I think that's why I like this piece a lot is that it brings up all these ideas of, it's so simple, but it brings up all those concepts to me. Speaker 2 (31:14): It does. And wigs many times, hide up, cover up what you don't want to be revealed at that moment in time. So you can, for example, these wigs that are very, the hair is straight, they have a nice curl to them, it's more acceptable. It's more white Speaker 1 (31:36): Versus Speaker 2 (31:38): The ones that are the braids, Speaker 1 (31:40): The Speaker 2 (31:40): Twist, the locks, that that's an ethnic wig. Speaker 1 (31:45): Yeah. Well, and this is very timely too, because there's been so much about the way sort of black hair is policed recently, and I'm going to forget the kid's name, who is having all this troubles with his school and stuff because of his hair. You, Speaker 2 (32:01): I don't remember his name, but I know that as well. He got invited to the Oscars because of it. Speaker 1 (32:06): Yes, yes, that's right. Yeah. He was here. Yeah. So I mean, the ideas of what that hair represents, and it's just hair, it's like you just can't do anything about it. It's like this is what grows out of my head. You can't help it. Speaker 2 (32:21): And yet there are organizations and entities that do put an emphasis on what does your hair look like? We want your hair to look a certain way. We don't want your hair shown. When you think about hair and religion, we talked about the Orthodox Jews, but there are other religions that I think of the Amish community, not for the women, but you can tell from a man how long they've been married by how long their beard is, because once they get married, they no longer cut their beard. Or there are some Pentecostal churches that a woman is never to cut her hair. Speaker 1 (33:06): So Speaker 2 (33:06): You have all that expanse. It's not the wigs, but the importance of hair in society. It's part of our society, whether it's your own natural hair or it's the hair that you use to cover up your hair. And there was, I think of timing where most wigs were made from synthetic hair. And because there's been a surgeons of being more natural, you want that Brazilian silky hair because it's natural hair. So there's a whole industry that's evolved because I can grow my hair, I can sell my hair, and it'll be made into a wig. Speaker 1 (33:48): It probably started with, I would guess really early wigs would probably be all natural hair or maybe even animal hair in some cases. And then I think a lot of those, we were talking about the powdered wigs, a lot of those were like horse hair, I think. And then once you had acrylic and stuff like that, you could start having those synthetic hairs. And again, I don't really know much about wigs, but I would imagine acrylic, I would imagine it'd be pretty limiting with what you can do with it. It's Speaker 2 (34:17): What it is. Speaker 1 (34:17): Yeah. I mean, it's like you can't take heat, it can melt. So I would guess real hair, it's like you can actually style it more like real hair would be, my guess Speaker 2 (34:29): Can. It's fascinating. Cincinnati was home to a large wig developer store, and it is now Japs. Oh, Speaker 1 (34:42): Had that. You're right. Yeah. Speaker 2 (34:42): So when Japs was originally, it had been closed up Speaker 1 (34:46): For Speaker 2 (34:46): Years, and then when it was bought, they found all these wigs that were still there. Yeah. Speaker 1 (34:54): Well, I kind of want to look just to see if there's any other interesting text here, because this one's pretty interesting. Again, these things say they ask more questions than answer them, but this a little tag says, if the shoe fits, wear it. Don't go near the water unless you know how to swim. There are more than one side to every question. Nine tailors make a man. Speaker 2 (35:16): Nine tailors make a man makes you think about tailoring. Speaker 1 (35:20): Well, again, it's also interesting. It brings in men into the equation. It brings in issues of gender back into it, which is a sort of fascinating side of this. Speaker 2 (35:31): And when you're talking about gender, this is a great one. So this quote is below a wig that is braided, and it says, truth was asked that she display her breast to confirm her sex during a meeting that she might have been a man masquerading as a woman. Speaker 1 (35:52): The idea of deception, again is coming up, right? Those Speaker 2 (35:55): Wigs Speaker 1 (35:56): Like something, oh, this one is the same one. It says she dressed them as twins, sometimes female, sometimes male. It's the same thing as from over there, but it's this one is with the doll wigs, which changes it. When you see the doll wigs, suddenly it really says something there. Speaker 2 (36:13): This is definitely my sister choosing which wig to wear. Always took a moment or two to decide. And even though she wears it as a hat, is she going to have her long curly one, Speaker 1 (36:25): Or Speaker 2 (36:25): Is she going to have just the one that's going to be down to her shoulders? Speaker 1 (36:30): Yeah. It's like that idea of what are you deciding, what's sort of the unspoken thing there about what you want it to say? Or there's so much about like, oh, I think I wear this because it makes me look more like this, or it's so much more about who you want to be in a way. Speaker 2 (36:51): For me, it would be fascinating to see how this exhibit would be created today, knowing all the different types of wigs that we have out there now that we have the red, orange, blue, pink, purple, and green combined wigs, all the hair that you can weave into your hair, like this one, this is really a piece that you would tie in and braid into your own Speaker 1 (37:21): Hair. Speaker 2 (37:22): How would it look today? Speaker 1 (37:24): Yeah, it's a good question. What would be different? Yeah, what would styles have changed and Speaker 2 (37:29): What would still be the same? Speaker 1 (37:30): Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting. She's making, she sort of started out as a photographer and then started doing, this is sort of a middle phase where she started doing a little more experimental things. A lot of her earlier photographs really focused on people or a lot of bodies, a lot of women, often their heads are kind of cropped out, so they kind of stop short of the mouth. And then she started doing stuff like this with kind of unusual materials and printing on different things. And now some of her more recent pieces, she's painting, she's drawing, she's doing lots of different things. So she's a person who works in so many different mediums, and she's really an artist. The work starts with an idea, and then what it ends up being is sort of dictated by that idea, not just like, well, I'm a photographer, so I make photographs. It's more like, I want to talk about this and this is the best way to do it. So she's a really fascinating artist. Speaker 2 (38:27): It is fascinating. I am a craft artist as well as a performing artist, and I don't always think about being a craft artist. I make my crafts wear and I make jewelry from it. And so for me, it's always sending that message out to what I'm wearing. Speaker 1 (38:44): Well, and the material of this, I think it was one of my favorite things, because it has that feeling of hair. Speaker 2 (38:52): It does because Speaker 3 (38:53): It's printed Speaker 1 (38:53): On felt, it makes it feel like the texture of hair as you're looking at it kind of reflects the light in the same way. And it makes it, I remember thinking like, oh, this is going to be a very hard piece to keep people from touching because it looks like so tempting, doesn't it Speaker 2 (39:12): Does. There are some of them that Speaker 1 (39:15): I'm looking at Becky here as a garden, Speaker 2 (39:17): This one as well. It's almost as it pops off the page, you could go in, pull it, and put it Speaker 3 (39:23): On. Speaker 1 (39:24): Do you have to keep people from touching a lot on this one? I have. Yeah. Took her tail. She said she does. I mean, I think it's, yeah, it's the material touch. It really makes you want, I mean, yeah, it looks so soft. You just really want to touch it. Speaker 2 (39:41): And it's hung differently than most pieces of artwork are hung in the museum. You typically don't see what is keeping it on the wall, Speaker 1 (39:52): But Speaker 2 (39:52): You can see these pens, which if you have a wig head, you use pens to keep your wig on the wig head. Yeah, Speaker 1 (40:00): That's true. That's true. That's funny. I didn't think about, I guess I was still, and I started talking about this sort of idea of it almost like a scientific display. I was thinking of pinning butterflies, but I didn't even think about the way you use pins to actually work with wigs. So it's a perfect way of hanging them. And she's obviously made that a point by leaving them exposed. Yeah, it's like a lot of times we try to hide the way works are hung, but here it's just fully on view. That makes me think too, now I have to bring this up, even though it's so silly. Have you ever watched Schitt's Creek? Speaker 2 (40:38): I have not. Speaker 1 (40:38): Okay. So it's kind of sitcom. It's Canadian and it has Catherine O'Hara and Eugene Levy in it. And Catherine O'Hara's character is named Moira Rose, and they're sort of wealthy people who have lost all their money and had to move into this crappy motel out in the middle of nowhere. And the only thing she could take with her were all her wigs. And so it's like this motel wall with all these wigs nailed to the wall. So this makes me think of Moira Rose, too. Just tell Speaker 2 (41:13): Me the name of that episode or the sitcom. Speaker 1 (41:15): It's called Schitt's Creek. Speaker 2 (41:16): Schitt's Creek. I'm going Speaker 1 (41:17): To have to, it's spelled like a last name. Ss C H I T T. Schitt's Creek. Yeah. Speaker 2 (41:22): I'm going to have to look it up. Speaker 1 (41:24): It's very funny. And if you enjoy Catherine O'Hara being a diva and having a very strange unidentified Actory accent plays a former soap opera actress, Speaker 2 (41:37): And everything is sort of Speaker 1 (41:39): Enunciated in this sort of strange, sometimes it's very British, but sometimes it's not. And it's like Speaker 2 (41:44): Because it's Canadian. Speaker 1 (41:45): Yeah. But it's like she'll very intentionally put a weird heat on a word that's like, what did she just say? So she's great. It's amazing. And a big part of every episode is just sort of hoping she's going to be wearing something amazing and have some ridiculous wig, Speaker 2 (42:06): I think takes the wigs off the wall and wears them. Speaker 1 (42:09): Yeah. I think sometimes I've heard that she's actually worn some of the wigs backwards to get these sort of really bizarre looks like she'll just put up the wig on backwards. They'll wear the same wig from another episode, but she'll have it on backwards. So that looks totally different. Speaker 2 (42:25): Do you have a favorite wig? Oh Speaker 1 (42:27): My gosh. You know what? I actually probably do love the blonde wig, I think, because it does stick out so much as an anomaly. But it also makes me think of, oh my gosh, this is really actually kind of perfect. Have you ever seen the movie Dress to Kill? Speaker 2 (42:41): Yes. Speaker 1 (42:42): So it makes me, reminds me of Dress to Kill, which I don't want to give away any of the ending of Drastic Hill, but that's definitely a movie about wigs and identity and maybe a movie that is not as culturally sensitive as it should be. But it was made in the late seventies, early eighties, I can't remember now, Speaker 2 (43:01): Long time ago. Speaker 1 (43:03): Yeah. What's your favorite wig? Speaker 2 (43:06): I like this one only because it reminds me of my mother who hasn't been with us for eight years, and that is something that she would put her wigs in the net and put them to bed. She actually had, there was a drawer that there were a couple of wig stands on the dresser that were the ones that were in the rotation for that week, Speaker 1 (43:33): But Speaker 2 (43:33): Then the drawer had the hodgepodge of wigs. And I can remember opening the drawers and taking them out and trying them on and putting them back on. So yeah, Speaker 1 (43:45): This little tag here, I meant to bring this up earlier, but this one's really fascinating. And I actually heard when I was doing my research, Lorna Simpson talk about it. So it says that slave holders have the privilege of taking their slaves to any part of the country. They think proper. It occurred to me that my wife was nearly white. I might get her to disguise herself as an invalid gentleman, assumed to be my master while I could attend as his slave. And that in this manner, we might affect our escape. So this was a true story she found out in the part that she doesn't include here that I think is really fascinating is that, I guess in the story she was telling when they got to some point where they were being sort of inspected or something, and they asked her to read a letter and she couldn't read, but she said she had learned sort of the way her privileged white masters would act. And she kind of knew that she could just sort of say, how dare you ask me to read this letter? And just sort of take that attitude with them and just say, how dare you ask me to read something like this right now? Do you know how stressed I am right now? And blah, blah, blah. And it worked. Speaker 2 (45:01): And I would say that that happened on more than one occasion, and that there are probably many, as we're talking about this, about being white, passing for white, that there are many families that have that story in their lineage. Speaker 1 (45:17): Yeah. Yeah. Well, and it also brings up that idea of mean, the idea of skin color and hair colors. It's not really any different, but the different cultural weight it has, it bears so much different weight, but it's like, you're like, well, it's the same stuff that makes your hair darker, that makes skin darker. But it's so fascinating. Again, this idea of becoming somebody else. It's like she's really, by putting that in there, she's also brought in this really amazing historical aspect and made this piece that's already kind of big to me culturally, but made it even bigger in this really interesting way. Speaker 2 (45:58): And it's a testament to the museum really supporting women who are, as the exhibit is called, breaking Boundaries, and not just breaking boundaries by doing art that is non-traditional that you would normally see, but breaking boundaries by bringing historical truths to the forefront. Yeah. Speaker 1 (46:17): Yeah. Well, thank you so much for being my guest today. Speaker 2 (46:20): It's been my pleasure. Thank you for inviting me. Speaker 1 (46:22): You're welcome. Thank you for listening to Art Palace. We hope you'll be inspired to come visit the Cincinnati Art Museum and have conversations about the art yourself. General admission to the museum is always free, and we also offer free parking. The special exhibition on view right now is Women Breaking Boundaries and opening February 28th is something over something else. Romero Bearden's profile series. You're invited to our free opening celebration for that exhibition on February 27th, beginning at 5:00 PM which will feature a lecture from two of the curators at 7:00 PM No reservations are required, and seating for the lecture is first. Come. First. Serve. For program reservations and more information, visit cincinnati art museum.org. You can follow the museum on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Snapchat, and also join our Art Palace Facebook group. Our theme song is Ferron Music. How? By back aloud. And as always, please rate and review us to help others find the show. I'm Russell Iig, and this has been Art Palace, produced by the Cincinnati Art Museum.